Basic c-36 questions

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JakeFrith
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Basic c-36 questions

Hi,
I'm writing up a used boat test of a 1996 Catalina 36 for a UK yachting magazine.
Can anybody provide an overview of things too look out for when buying one of these boats. What problems do they commonly have?
There have been a number of rudder changes over the years. Have there been rudder problems?
Are the hulls of the wing keelers strong enough to stand drying out with yacht legs or has this caused problems?
Do they suffer from osmosis? Etc.
many thanks
Jake

Jake Frith
Editor, Sailing Today Magazine
[url]http://www.sailingtoday.co.uk[/url]

Swanwick Marina
Lower Swanwick
Southampton
SO31 1ZL
01489585213

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LCBrandt
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Posts: 1282

If you do a search on these Forums you'll find comments over the past few years about the occasional item. I suggest searching for each of the target words you mentioned.

Thanks for your interest in the Catalina 36.

Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
 

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Steve Frost
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Posts: 788

Jake,

You have picked a good boat for your article. As for known problems there are few, in an interview with Tom Sokoloski that should be up on as a audio link in our next issue of Jibsheet Emagazine found here on our site, Tom stated most accuraratly the biggest potential problem on a used C36 would be its previous owner. The areas of the boat that are prone to problems are almost all non problems if the boat is well maintained. Leaking chainplates being an area of concern, but as Tom noted if the previous owner maintained the boat properly and rebeds the chain plates when needed it is not an issue.

As for your query about the boats ability to set on its keel in some of your waters with large tidal swings I can not answer, there are several discussion here on our board related to proper blocking of the boat when on the hard. The boat is fairly robust though I am uncertain if it was designed for the rudder and keel attach to withstand twice a day groundings that some of the British bilge keelers and twin keel boats take on a daily basis.

As for the rudders, I know of only four, pre and post MKI both with shorter versions for shoal draft.

I am certain you will get plenty of input from our forum, you have found the right place for feedback, I susspect you will get more input than you can print. Thanks for checking in with us and please get us a copy of your review.

You may also wish to include a link to our site as potential buyers of C36's would I am sure be consoled by the support our organization provides for our fleet.

Cepheus dream
C36 MK I # 825
MK I Tech Editor No Mas

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Nimue
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Posts: 429

In BC I have seen two boats from 1985 with moderate to severe blistering. My 1983 boat doesn't appear to have any (yet).

As far as drying out on the keel, I haven't had a good look at the wing keel version. the standard fin on the older boats is so swept that the boat would tip over forwards on a tide grid I think. I would also be concerned about the rudder withstanding groundings - there are few documented cases of the rudder support being damaged by moderate groundings, particularly in later model boats with the open transom, where the rudder bearings are closer together than on early '80s models with the closed transom and large lazarette.

My number one pet peeve with the layout is that there is no tidy way to route lines back to the cockpit on the older boats, you are forced to go outside of the traveller and dorade boxes. Otherwise the on-deck layout is great.

I find the boat a little under-powered under sail in typical west coast conditions, but it is right in line with the common european models of the same size, so I suspect it would be fine in the UK.

Jason V
Vancouver, BC, Canada

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dejavu
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Having owned both a 1986 model and my current 1991 model over the past 24 years, I would have to say that my biggest problems have been a loss of interest in new boat shows, a lack of desire to "move up" and an enhanced love of sailing. Seriously, though, my 1986 had to have a complete hull peel for blisters, but my 1991 hasn't had a single one. Catalina was experimenting with gel coat formulas in the 80's, it seems, so you will find good years and bad years. I second the notion that a good prior owner is worth his weight in gold.

Mike

Deja Vu
1991 MK I # 1106
Marina del Rey, CA

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tsenator
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Posts: 26

Jake,

You've asked a few basic questions which I can address somewhat. I'll take them one at a time and add comments and observations.

C36 - What problems do they commonly have?

In general nothing endemic to the general design of the boat. Over the years there have been upgrades to certain areas, but that’s because when Catalina found a better way to do something or things came along in the industry Catalina would incorporate some of those advances in boat building techniques or design. You must remember the Catalina 36 is the most popular 36 foot sailboat ever produced. (25 years & some 2300+ hull’s ) So they are bound to make improvements as time goes by. Whether its switching from regular polyester for FRP to Vinylester resin (more blister proof) halfway through the run of building or different ways to attached stays/shrouds through decks, or even better hatches as time goes by, etc etc. One thing I can say is I have never heard of a C36 that was so compromised by these issues to cause a loss of the boat

As mentioned before by others, any boat that is not maintained might have issues such leaks around deck’s attachment to chainplates or hatches. But I have seen the same issues on Hinckleys and other high end boats. The basic design of the C36 is very solid. In fact I believe that it would almost be considered a conservative design. Look at the Hull layup its solid fiberglass (except the deck which is cored to keep weight down up top), Look at the rig, conservative but solid, (I know people that have lost a forestay, but due to the keel stepped mast and quick thinking were able to save their mast and limp home) Catalina, to their credit, instead of trying something exotic or the latest fad with C36 instead gave us a solid sweet sailing boat, that looks and sails as good today as it did 25 years ago.

There have been a number of rudder changes over the years. Have there been rudder problems?

Yes, it is true there have been design changes, but this is not due to any rudder problems, per se, but rather to tweeking the design of the rudder shape somewhat to create a balanced rudder and more streamlined to ease pressure on the helm. I am sure in the 25 years Catalina also improved on things though. I know that as the years went by Catalina have done things structurally to the rudders that just made them better. For instance (and I don’t know what year they started doing this) but I know that Catalina fiberglasses the stainless steel “tabs or fingers” internally on all the rudders to one side of the rudder wall, not just putting it into the “foam” on the inside of the rudder. This alleviates the issues of some other manufacturers older design rudders that if there is internal damage and the foam inside the rudder is compromised the helm would turn but the actual rudder wouldn’t. They also build the rudder so that in case you do hit something only the bottom half of the rudder would break away allowing the boat to still be sailed home with the top half if necessary.

Now with that said I am in no way saying the rudder is the most bullet proof rudder out there, of course it isn’t. It’s a Spade Rudder and just inherent in the design is that its not as well protected as say a Keel Attached barn door rudder. But I know that and I’d rather have the responsiveness of a Spade rudder when sailing . All things being equal, If I was to run up on a reef, I’d rather have a full keel and attached rudder ;-) If people do run the keel into the bottom when sailing what usually happens is the it might bend the rudder post a little which would create a crooked rudder one way or another a bit . What sometimes would happen then is that when turning the helm it might bind on the hull a bit. I have actually heard of people using a “come along” and bending the rudder back where they could sail the boat fine again. I guess it all depends on how much things get bent out of shape.

Are the hulls of the wing keelers strong enough to stand drying out with yacht legs or has this caused problems?

One area of the C36’s that is rarely discussed is how well the keel and keel to hull attachment seems to be built. It’s seems to be a surprising strong, especially for a fin keel type boat. I have never heard of a keel to hull failure on a C36 (knock on wood ..knock…knock…knock) Below is a picture of a C36 (or a C34 the sister ship I can’t remember now) that broke off a mooring during one of our Nor’easters or the edge of a Hurricane that came through. The boat landed fine on its feet at the other end of harbor. We haul our boats ever year in the north east and the boat rest on its keel throughout winter. Its designed to do that, we have jack stands but that is not supporting the boat but to keep the boat from tipping over. I would have no problem careening my C36 wing keel if I had a nice level place for the keel to rest and a few extra inches deeper for the rudder. One important thing to note on our C36 wing keel boats. The rudder is just about the same depth as keel. The draft on our Wing Keel C36 are only 4’6” which is surprising shallow for such a good sailing 36’ boat (Great for the shallow waters in parts of LI Sound, Chesapeake and Florida and the Bahama’s) , as such Catalina wanted and needed to keep a good sized rudder to help helm the boat well. I am glad for that, if they reduced the size/depth of the rudder I fear the loss of steering power when needed in bigger seas

I suggest you reach out to Gerry Douglas at Catalina yachts, he could add even more commentary on some of the improvements over the years

Tom Senator
"Breathless"
#1800 - 1999 C36 MKII
(C36 MKII Technical Editor 2001-2009)

_______________
Tom Senator
Former Mk II Tech Editor

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