Adriatic

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bighi
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Adriatic

I am probably getting my 2006 Catalina 36 shipped from Ensenada, Mexico to arrive in Savona, Italy in a month and ten days. From there I'm sailing it southeast to pass between Calabria and Sicily then heading north up the adriatic to it's final destination north of Venice. Has anybody sailed those waters and can give me some pointers regarding currents and prevailing winds? Or where can I find a basic cruising guide for the area. Right now I'm thinking it's going to be an european version of the Baja Bash. While I will not be pressed for time, this is not a lifetime experience thing. Just some enjoyment thrown into getting my boat to it's new home location. So, a few days of rest from beats here and there seems like the plan. But I'll take any info if anyone in this forum has any.

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LCBrandt
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I used to have a cruising guide for Italy (in Italian), but will need to do a search to find it, if that's even possible. If I locate it, I'll email to get an address to mail it to.

It'll be high summer by the time you splash and get fully outfitted, I suppose. The north Adriatic (Croatia) is a famous cruising ground, with lots of charterers all over the place. You'll have a great trip.

Beware of European taxes. If you haven't already, you should check with a knowledgeable maritime lawyer there to keep your boat out of trouble. There may be tax advantages to basing in Croatia instead of Italy...at least this was the case several years back. Things may have changed, but what hasn't changed, I'm pretty sure, is the potential for tax and Euro-registry hassles.

Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
 

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LCBrandt
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Found it. It's a Bolina "Dove Navigare" port guide to the Med, in Italian, showing drawings of all the ports in the area you're traveling, from 2003. It includes monthly pilot charts showing prevailing winds/probabilities at various locations that may be of assistance to you. Email me at LCBrandt(at)coastpilot(dot)com to establish contact. [If you want it soon you'll need to let me know right away, as I will be away for a couple weeks.]

Oh, and are you a Member (capital M) of the C36IA? I would help you even if you weren't, but it sounds like you would really benefit from a 3-year Membership. The free Tech Notes CD would be an important reference for you. You'll be at the far end of a support network, and the C36IA might provide just the help you need in a lonely moment. We'd love to have you aboard if you're not already a Member.

Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
 

bighi
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Larry, thanks for the info. I'm still in limbo about shipping my boat because of the 220 conversion. My boat will be there permanently with a capital P. Especially paying cheap marina fees at this place [url]http://www.marinalepanto.it/[/url]
Cheaper than I pay at the dump I'm at in San Diego. The best part is they have no liveaboard rules in any of the marinas I found in Italy. You pay for the slip, it's yours. What you do with it, within reason, is your problem. Right now I have ten days, or less, to decide if I keep this boat and ship it, or sell it. The only other Catalina 36 I found is in the North Sea, where most of them are, and will end up costing the same as what I paid for mine plus shipping costs. It evens out, but it's not my boat. What is affecting my decision is the 220 conversion. I have no interest, no, make that, I do not want at all, to purchase wall plug appliances from the US. And no, I don't want adapters for every device plugged in on the boat. I just want a no bs european voltage boat with european wall outlets. I spoke today to Gerry Douglas and he mentioned the holes on the walls being different. If mine are smaller, then no problem. He also mentioned an entirely new AC/DC panel and water heater. Can anybody help me out with this? I don't have much more time to decide. How hard is it to remove that water heater. I would have to do this as fast as possible since I would like the same heater that fits. Only in 220. Even the tv becomes an issue. TV's here aren't PAL and, if mine takes a crap, again, I have to have one shipped from the US and then changed over to PAL. See, this boat needs to be 220. I'm moving the boat and myself to stay for good. And a Jeanneu/Beneteau/Bavaria, boats I outrun on a daily basis, will not do. Neither will anything else with veneer paneled interiors and cored hulls. What do you think Larry?

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LCBrandt
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You ask a lot of questions, and obviously with a sense of urgency. Let me put myself in your position for a moment, and say what I think I would do.

Here's the thing about European 220 VAC: your existing wiring ought to be satisfactory, because doubling the voltage halves the current. And more good news, only the AC portion of the electrical system need be modified...the DC would remain exactly the same.

What would need to be changed would be:

1. AC Inlet Connector...easy to change. See my article on this topic in the C36IA Technical - Maintenance library. Then again, maybe the existing connector would work, as I am not familiar with AC shore power hookups in Europe.

2. Isolator, ditto easy access in stbd lazarette. Just need to find a European supplier.

3. Main CB in stbd lazarette...need to re-size amperage appropriately; easy access in stbd lazarette.

4. CBs on Power Dist Panel, easy to obtain, and easy access to change. I don't think the entire power dist panel would need to be changed on a Mk II. Only the CBs, and that yellow LED light that annunciates reversed polarity.

5. Water heater. Talk to Seaward, as they probably make the identical heater for 220VAC. Not too bad to change on the Mk II, as access isn't too cramped. Maybe a day's job, I would think, for an average-skilled handyman. Biggest hassle: getting an air bubble in the cooling system, causing you to burp the system.

6. Charger. Easy access under saloon aft seat. Half day job provided no wiring need be extended to accomodate different terminal locations. Maybe the existing mfr offers identical unit for 220VAC???

7. Outlets, 9 or 10 of them in all...the biggest job of all, as the wood/fiberglass openings would have to be dremeled out to accomodate larger electrical boxes. European outlets are big and ugly (apparently because of the higher voltage; it makes them look as if designed in old Soviet Union). But they are all fairly accessible. Outlets and electrical boxes readily available at European equivalent of Home Depot. I'd guess a day's job, maybe a little more, to convert all of them. Once you had a couple under your belt the rest would roll along. Not rocket science...just time consuming.

Your TV must be European because of PAL (versus our NTSC), as well as the 220 VAC.

Now here is the fine print: None of my thoughts above address any potential code or other changes that may be required by the regulatory authorities over there. Then again, maybe there are no requirements to be met. I don't know.

I sympathize with your preference for a Catalina versus the plethora of Euro choices. And you must have one of the final C36s ever built! It's the perfect boat for what you want to do.

CAUTION: I caution you again about European registry requirements and taxes. It is worth a fax or phone call to a lawyer familiar with these matters to make darn sure you have no problems getting your boat into Italy. The EC may have restrictions on non-EC boats being registered there.

A personal aside: I have considered something similar to what you're contemplating, as my wife and I have discussed moving to Europe. (My wife is from Munich.) I think I would sail the boat there, though; not ship it; but then I have the luxury of time, to do it without deadlines. It's a trip I'd love to do.

Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
 

bighi
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Posts: 5

Larry, thanks a million. You have been amazing. I think Gerry was overestimating the trouble for the conversion. I mean, all the wiring to that AC panel is gauged for 110. It can easilly handle 220. The only issues I see are the circuit breakers. I can even get the shore power cable and shore power plugs from these guys in Germany
[url]http://www.svb.de/index.php?sid=22a9e15d57726b56079412ea9b1836b4&cl=alis...
I honestly think the biggest issue would be the water heater. Maybe I could even order the charger from that same website in Germany. Shore power cable while I'm at it. Oh, by the way, european shore power cables. Half the thickness, half the weight. What a beautiful thing.

Here is what I'm doing. That first shipping deal on the 29th of this month I'm scratching. I'm getting back to San Diego tomorrow and will see what I can get done locally in peace and on my dock. And I will call a lawyer over in Italy to see about importation. The freight forwarder I spoke to today ships a LOT of Catalinas over there. And a obscene number of 30s as well since that old 30 is filling a gap that no other boat can fill. Not even current Catalinas. I'll speak to him further and pick his brain about taxes. He thinks that I might get away with the same deal I'm getting with my car. Ship the most expensive car you own first since that one is a freebie taxwise. IF you can prove ownership for a certain period of time. The same applies for most of the EU. The boat might be as well. It's a personal possession. Yes, a lawyer might come in handy. Since I'll be living in Austria and Italy (on the boat), I'll have to see which one is easier to work with. Austria is done to perfection, Italy has leeway. I have to pick my poison as far as where to register it.

Again, I'll go back to San Diego and talk to the wireheads over there. Also, if for sure those wall outlets assemblies are bigger, I'm golden since I don't want to be doing botched up woodworking on a 2006 boat which is still highly marketable if it's close to new and lacking adaptation rigs. It's a different buyer market when it comes to newer boats. Just in case I decide to sell it over there. But from what the shipper told me, there will be interest in this boat over there because of differences like solid fiberglass, no wood veneers, but most of all, they don't look like destroyer bow masted canoes. These Catalinas are far better boats than we take them to be.

Now, as for the move. I think we have priced ourselves into the oblivion with the cost of living over here. Food, housing, everything. And by housing I mean even into this recession we are way overpriced. I have not seen one european marina that charges more than the cheapest marina in the west coast of the US. And if you live aboard, forget it. And the places these marinas are in are absolutely gorgeous. Have a look at this one. I was there last month. Amazing place. Dry cleaning service, docking assistance with RIB, amazing pool, you name it. It's Ferrari quality for Fiat prices.
[url]http://www.marinapuntafaro.it/en/index.aspx[/url]

Larry, let me see what I can figure out after talking to a few people in San Diego. I'll keep you posted. If you have any more ideas about this electrical converstion, let me know. Thanks a bunch.

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TomSoko
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Posts: 978

You might want to check with Seaward Products, the manufacturer of our water heaters. They may have a 220V heating element, which would be a very easy swap (just drain the WH, swap the element, and attach the wires), instead of replacing the whole WH.

Tom Sokoloski
C36/375IA Past Commodore
Noank, CT

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murpix
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Hi Bighi,
I am Italian and my Catalina is tied to Catania (Sicily). It will be a pleasure to give you all the necessary information. If steps from Catania hold a beer in the fridge. Give me the simple questions in English understandable form and I'll answer with pleasure.
You will have the problem of power supply. I had the same problem in reverse. You can settle down with a transformer from 110 to 220 V input.

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murpix
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This is the link of the magazine. Annually publish a book "Bolina Dove navigare"
[url]http://www.bolina.it/[/url]

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kapitan
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Posts: 19

gidday Bighi,
Our C36 is here in NZ at the other end of the world where we run 220V. You don't need to do any on board conversions just buy a 220V-110V transformer and you should be good to go.
cheers

Neville and Catherine Dunton-McLeod
Tauranga, New Zealand
S/V Memory
1993 C36, hull#1276; SR, WK

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murpix
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The electrical control panel on the left has utilities to 110V, in the right at 12V.
My Catalina is equipped with a charger that works with 220V. Check the label on your charger.
For electrical outlets you can use the adapters.
The only potential problem is the water heater. In this case for a few dollars you can replace the resistor. I did this. The power cord you just change the attack that goes to the dock.
If you do not have other loads at 110V then replace only the resistor of the water heater and the main plug.
Only one side you have to install a plug as image.

[url]http://cgi.ebay.it/SPINA-INDUSTRIALE-BLU-220V--GEWISS-ART.-GW60004_W0QQi...

Catalina separates the mass from the installation of earth. If there are wires in the panel that you added combining ground and neutral this disconnect and neutral mass. We keep separate line, mass and neutral. You may annoying return to power.

P.S. if you sign up for free at this Italian forum, you will find many friends ready to help and strongly recommended steps for a beautiful cruise. Friends are distributed all over the coast and help each other especially in difficulties.

[url]http://www.amicidellavela.it/[/url]

caprice 1050
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Posts: 345

Just something to anyone thinking of retireing to any Country outside of the U.S. Our Medicare health insurance will not cover you outside of the United States.

__/)__/)__/)__Capt Mike__/)__/)__/)__
Punta Gorda Florida
1990 Std WK M35 Hull #1050

bighi
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Posts: 5

All right guys, I've been gone for a few days trying to decide this thing. Right now, after discussing the issue with my partner on my boat, my mother, am leaning towards something completely different. After factoring in shipping costs, import duties and unforseens, my mother goes and finds this Catalina 42 in England. Now I personally love the 36. I sail mine about 5 days a week and live aboard it with no problems except for storing cushions I don't use. But I also love the 42. And one already there in Europe with everything I need starts to become appealing. To me, the main attraction with the 42 is the appearance and storage. Not that I carry much junk. I keep everything in my boat to the absolute minimum possible. Most people that come aboard my boat are surprised by how austere I keep it. But when you are living aboard and can't stow things like cushions and such in an apt, some berth has to be sacrificed. This is where the 3 cabin pullman starts to make sense. I always loved the way that particular boat looks on the water as well. None of the larger Catalinas have that look. I always liked the 2 cabin. But when I gave some thought about finding things down there in the aft storage instead of just walking down the companionway and using the 3rd stateroom to just throw things on the berth like sails, cushions and fenders with the ease of just opening a regular door and not hitting my head on anything, that 3 cabin started making more sense. Cover the bed with a cushioned shipping blanket and literally throw anything in there just seems to be the way to go for living aboard. I'm still in thought here but have spent the last few days going inside 42s. My broker friend and I, both 42 2 cabin pullman fans, have now become 3 cabin fans. No crawling to get anything out of the storage room. It was interesting when yesterday, when walking into a 2 cabin, every single cushion and most junk was thrown on top of the second cabin. Had there been a third, that room would have been ready to go for sleeping use. Anyway, I love my 36. Always have. I know this boat well and it appealed to my smallest-boat-I-can-feel-comfortable-in mentality. But there is a special something about the 42. Almost as if Gerry Douglas designed it for his own use. Anyway, I'll keep you guys posted on what I decide.

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TomSoko
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"Almost as if Gerry Douglas designed it for his own use."

As a matter of fact, Gerry Douglas DOES own a three cabin Catalina 42. Marley's Ghost. He keeps it at Marina Del Ray in CA. It's a beautiful boat. I've sailed on it before.

Tom Sokoloski
C36/375IA Past Commodore
Noank, CT

bighi
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Posts: 5

Tom, I am presently looking at a 42 MKII with a Schaefer furling boom. Is this what is in Gerry's boat? I'm curious about this system and how troublefree it is. I say this because I am aware of the theoretical arguments between in-mast furling and in-boom furling. My 36 has in-mast furling. When I bought it, it was two years old and had no problems with the rig. Under my ownership, I sailed it about 4 days a week. Every week. All year. With that in-mast furling. The main still looks brand new and the theorical "jam" issue never happened. Now that I am looking at a in-boom furling boat, I am a little hesitant since keeping tension on one line while pulling on another is not something that I am excited about. A fully battened main is nice, but after all, these are jib driven boats. And in my 36 I never experienced a day and night diffrence between my boat and another with conventional main. But when it came to ease of use there was no comparison. Never a day with dutchman troubles or the like. And I never even bothered to keep tension on the outhaul when rolling in the main. Just yanked on the inhaul and done. 3 seconds. Regardless, I am wondering just how reliable that Schaefer furling boom is. Not the theoretical. The real life. Right now I am biased since I have had 4 years with a 100% reliability record on my in-mast furling. And not one flaw in that main and the luff is perfect.

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