Try these links:

[url]http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,2705.0.html[/url]

[url]http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4990.0.html[/url]

You should seriously consider the new generation of anchors.

Stu:
I am curious which ones your talking about and where they have been used at?

I have been upgrading over the last year in preparation for the Bahama's and possibility the Carib. I added 175 feet of 5/16 hi test chain which is hooked to a 33 lbs Bruce. I need to see if a 44lb Delta will fit onto the other bow roller along side the Bruce. I have the largest Danforth also that fits into the anchor locker holder. The rode I have in the locker is 250 ft of 5/8 and have 300 ft below of 3/4.

We just had a friend that came back from the Bahama's which has spent the last 2 winters there on a Bayfield 40 and he has found out that a Delta works about the best there as they have 5 different types of anchors aboard.

I just like to know that I can sleep sound in knowing what I have laid out and not wondering if it will hold.

Randy

Caprice has 36 feet of chain and 200 of rope on a Bruce 33. She is usually achored in 10 feet of water or less. I usually let out 70 feet of chain and rope for a 7-1 scope. We had only one episode when the anchor did not hold and that was in the Bahamas in an unusually rocky bottom during a squall. Caprice has been through several squalls while at anchor and that was the only time the Bruce 33 broke out.

There is also a Danfort aboard which I only used one time in over five years. Caprice was in a tight anchoridge in Ft Myers, Florida where all the other boats were using two anchors, so Caprice had to use two anchors also. I feel secure with the Bruce 33 in sand or muddy bottom.

Randy, I'm not sure what your question is. Where used? I was under the impression that the links I supplied pretty much answered what and why. Where? I'm here in SF Bay where the bottom is mainly very good and sticky mud. I've been to Drake's Bay where it is hard sand. I included the anchoring sizing tables and noted how I designed my system. Anything else, without repeating what's in the links I provided, I'd be glad to answer.

Having an anchor that catches and holds enough to pull you off the bow, and can withstand the engine in FULL reverse to properly set it is exactly what an anchor should do. Anything else is a compromise I wouldn't trust my boat or my life to.

I am using a Fortress F-16 w/ about 15 feet of chain. I know that I am short on the chain side - good for about 50ft of water. I am usually in 20ft or less. Being on a lake, I am not going to anchor in deeper water or highly exposed areas, so I really don't have a need for more chain.

It is a light-weight anchor (only weighs 10lbs.) and I have not had any issues getting it to set or hold.

They have very good anchoring and sizing guides online. You may want to go up a size based on your environment. My anchor grounds are probably very tame compared to where you are and others would have more applicable suggestions.

[url]http://www.fortressanchors.com/fortress_anchor_guide.html[/url]

The Fortress may be a good fit for you becasue they can be disassebled/stored and also has adjustable setting angles.

Just my thoughts...

I just changed from a Delta 22 which was a bit undersized to a Rocna 15 that weighs 33lbs. Only used it twice in light conditions but in addition to weight it seems to have a much larger surface area.

Not cheap but I think it will be a significant improvement.

I have a 33lb Bruce but I also have a large Danforth which would like to carry as a spare or kedge anchor.
I can't stow it on the bow roller and it with chain and rope will occupy an already full port cockpit locker.

Can I ask what the experience is with anchor stowage?

Bruce, can I ask where you store your Danforth on Caprice?

Peter
I store my Danfort inside the anchor locker. It is to big to hang in there on the space cut out for it but. it still fits in the locker O.K.

I changed out my 33lb claw (Bruce-style) for a 44lb Delta over a year ago. We have 80 ft of chain and 200 ft of nylon. I also carry a Fortress FX-16 on the bow with a separate rode. I have used the Fortress a few times singularly and in a Bahamian moor with the primary anchor.

The Delta just barely fits on the primary roller, but I needed to add a larger bail at the end (that keeps the enchor from jumping up in heaving seas). The close proximity to the roller furling drum forces me to pull the anchor up by hand the last few feet to guide it past the drum.

One downside to the extra weight is that my small wife cannot raise the anchor to the roller; I must do it. She is always at the helm during anchoring, so it is not a big deal, but it is always a little disconcerting when only one crew of two can do a particular job.

Why I switched was that we were going on a 4-month cruise to the Bahamas and numerous sources indicated the Delta was the best overall anchor for that area. I have never had a problem with it setting or holding, while I did have a few times that the 33lb claw dragged in soft bottoms.

I know that design is more important than weight in an anchor, but for any given design, the more weight the better as far as holding is concerned. I have always subscribed to the theory that if people gawk and say "wow, that anchor is too big for that boat", you have just about the right size.

Wow! What a question. This is a thread I expect will go on for many pages.

The original question had to do with anchor choices in Pacific Northwest waters. And so the answer to THAT has to be based on those waters. Nevertheless, the discussion is a good one all around, and so should continue for other waters, as well...I think.

Here's my feeling about Pac NW anchoring: In my humble opinion, a plow-type anchor should be the anchor of choice, ready at the bow. A 35 lb CQR is pretty much the best choice (without commenting on pros & cons re the new Racnor and other technologies, with which I am unfamiliar). I have been anchoring our C36 in those waters for 7 years with a 25 lb CQR, with excellent success. Only very rarely have I had to re-anchor...twice in Echo Bay, Sucia Island comes to mind. I believe am under-anchored by 10 lbs; I need a 35 pounder, but haven't reached for the checkbook yet...and am confident enough in my existing anchor and 100 feet of chain + 200 ft rope that I don't feel the urgency to change.

In the San Juans, anchoring during high season is typically at 3:1 scope. There are just too many boats and all the charter companies advice the short scope as standard to allow everyone to share the anchorages. One weekend I was instructing a bareboat class we were one of 125 anchored boats in Echo Bay. We always listen to the wx broadcast every evening and morning, even on the nicest of days, to be prepared to let out scope if a (usually) well-forcasted squall is imminent.

I have instructed quite a number of the week-long "learn-n-cruises" in the San Juans on different boats, and so have experience with different anchors. I have to tell you that in Pac NW waters I have dragged more times on Bruces than all my other dragging experiences combined. From those experiences, I would caution anyone from Olympia, WA and north to avoid the Bruce...cheap though they may be. In other waters they would doubtless be excellent anchors, but I wouldn't have one in Puget Sound and north if it were a gift.

Oh, I just remembered - and wished I still had the photo -but on one class I taught on a boat with a Bruce, when we raised the anchor in the morning it had, resting in it, a boulder, exactly sized for the 'cradle' of the Bruce flukes. We had lain to a damn boulder all night, unknowingly! And it was a BEAR to get out. Two of us lying on the bow had the wrestle the boulder, probably 80 lbs worth, out of the anchor before we could exit Inati Bay and head out into the chop of windy Hale Passage. No fun!

[QUOTE=LCBrandt;2028]...In my humble opinion, a claw-type anchor should be the anchor of choice, ready at the bow. A 35 lb CQR is pretty much the best choice... [/QUOTE]

For the sake of others reading this, a CQR is a 'PLOW' type; a Bruce is a 'CLAW' type. I think Larry is saying a plow works best in the Pacific NW.

Thanks, Duane. Yes...that is exactly what I had in mind but made the transposition inadvertantly. I have corrected it in my post.

Thanks for covering my six.

Duane:

Are you carrying any other anchor on the bow other then the 44 # delta? Also do you have a bow water tank? I am just trying to get a feel how the boat handles with the added weight up front. I am thinking of the 33 # bruce , and a 44# delta in addition to 150 5/16 chain which is ruffly 160#, with a 40 gal water tank up front.

Randy

[QUOTE=mutualfun;2046]Duane:

Are you carrying any other anchor on the bow other then the 44 # delta? Also do you have a bow water tank? I am just trying to get a feel how the boat handles with the added weight up front. I am thinking of the 33 # bruce , and a 44# delta in addition to 150 5/16 chain which is ruffly 160#, with a 40 gal water tank up front.

Randy[/QUOTE]

Well, consider this: Have you ever sailed with an adult standing at the bow? That probably adds from 150-200+ pounds to the bow. With a boat that probably weights some 14,000 pounds, it doesn't seem to me that that would make a whole lot of difference, no?

Randy,

Yes, I also carry an aluminum Fortress FX-16 on the bow with a separate rode including about 20 ft of chain. I also carry a full 38 gals of water in the bow tank when starting a cruise over 3 days.

Racer friends shake their heads at the 'excessive' weight at the bow, but I am a cruiser who likes to sleep soundly at night on good ground tackle.

I do notice a slight difference with a full bow water tank in addition to all the anchor/rode weight; she tends to pitch down into head seas more. The boat takes green water over the bow in rough conditions, and I'm sure that getting rid of all the ground tackle and water at the bow would help, but that's not realistic.

On my boat in Lake Michigan I have as a primary anchor a 35# Delta (Plow) with 120' of 5/16" chain (G40) and 200' of 9/16" brait plaited rode.

The secondary anchor is a 22# with 15' of 5/16" chain and 200' of 1/2" braided rode. I came with the boat and I haven't made a change. I will change to 30' of 5/16" chain and 300' of 9/16" plaited rode in the future. I haven't used the second anchor since I owned the boat, 6 years.

Lake Michigan is mostly sand on the East side and rocky on the north and west sides. Weeds can exist anywhere.

Regards,

Lou Bruska

I am curious what or if any others have bought, used or have one of the northstar cqr style anchors. [url]www.northstaranchors.com[/url]

I have read good and bad about them. Mainly a lot say because they are not forged but cast. I wrote the company and asked a lot of questions and they told me they had not received any back that had broke or cracked. What I told them is that I had a lot riding on that anchor and did not want to have it break in a storm. He assured me the have been in many. So lets hear what you have to say.

Randy

Thanks for the link. Their prices are amazingly low. At these prices, I would assume the anchors are made in China, cast rather than forged, but that may not be a bad thing provided the metal is of decent quality.

I will be interested to hear if anyone has experience with Northstar anchors.

Nimue,

Can you provide a photo of how your 35# Delta rides in the bow roller? It has a curved shank, doesn't it? Or am I getting it mixed up with another anchor?

Thanks.

[QUOTE=Nimue;2368]Update on my choice - as said my boat came with a genuine 35# CQR, a 33# imitation Bruce, and a handful of Danforths. I sold the Bruce, am selling the CQR, and bought a lightly used 35# Delta as that seemed to be the one that has been fairing well in tests lately. Not quite as exotic as a Rocna but cheaper so it should do fine for now. I will carry a smaller Danforth as a backup or stern anchor.

Will update if I have any problems with this setup, going to use 40' of 5/16 chain and the rest rope. This will be the heaviest tackle of any of my cruising buddies so we will probably give it a good test in some rafting situations.[/QUOTE]

I sail in very different waters but I have that same anchor and I've been very happy with it in the mud bottom of the Chesapeake. I've learned not to back down on the anchor using full throttle or I'll have a wrestling match in the AM trying to get it back up. We back down with about 1/2 throttle for several seconds and have yet to drag even in the typical summer thunderstorms we encounter.

[QUOTE=Nimue;2000]What type and size of anchor are you all using?

My 36 came with a 35# CQR, 33# Bruce, and a couple of Danforths. I would like to keep the CQR as my main anchor, but it doesn't really fit into the anchor locker and is a bear to move around. For various reasons I don't want to leave it on the roller.

So, according to the literature, I could go down to a 22# Delta, but I feel like that would be getting a bit small?

What are you all using? I am in the PNW, and will have lots of chain, just trying to figure out what size of anchor I can get away with on my (new to me) Cat 36?[/QUOTE]

We would advise caution on the "what sized anchor I can [I]get away with[/I]" This depends on whether the wind gets up whilst you are on anchor ;)
I have seen boats sailing about violently on anchor in 40 to 45 knots and I bet they were wishing they had more 'pounds of steel' at the end of the chain!

We spend a lot of time on anchor around New Zealand's coast, and were set up for the winter in Tonga - nearly all the time at anchor.

We have a 20 kilo Rocna (new) on 50metres of 8mm chain and 16mm 'Brait' for the main anchor, a 20 kilo Delta (old) with 12mm Double braid for a backup, and a danforth style for a stern anchor.

The Delta is lashed to the hull in the V-berth;
The Rocna is on the bow roller for day sailing and lashed to the cabin top for multi - day passages (moves weight amidships and allows a parachute anchor to be set up thru the bow roller and led back to the cockpit for safe deployment) You are right to remove the anchor if there is a likelihood of taking much green water over the bow;
The Danforth is on a bracket on the 'push-pit' ready for emergency stops :)

Any time I move the Rocna I tie it to the pulpit in case of 'drops'.

The Rocna (or any of the new spades, etc) are far superior to the old CQR and Bruce.

Then again if you just day anchor in good weather then what we have might be over the top. A 15kg Rocna or similar would be fine.

Why do so many of you have so much chain?  My rode has 15' of chain and 150' of nylon.  Shouldn't this cover me 99% of the time?  At 7:1 I can anchor in 24' of water (or 33' at 5:1).  How often do you anchor deeper than this?  I'm fairly new to this and I'm currently getting my boat prep'ed to go on extended cruises.

For us, it's the impact that all chain has on the catenary effect of using chain.  In a blow, it keeps a horizontal pull on the anchor and can prevent the anchor from pulling lloose.  If you do not want to go with expense of more chain, you should, at a minimum, use an angel or centinel on the rode to increase the horizontal strength of your anchoring system.

Jeff,

First off, your anchor is an insurance policy.  Things happen and always at the wrong time.  A bigger primary anchor and more chain can make a difference.  It also makes overnight-ing more relaxing, knowing you'll be secure even in a pop up storm.  

The minium primary anchor should be 35# and minium chain should equal the weight of the anchor.  A 5/16" Grade 43 weighs about 1.1 lb./ft.  The newer scoop style anchors are a step up from the plow types.  I switched from a Lewmar Delta to a Lewmar Epsilon as it was a direct replacement without having to change or alter my bow roller.

Best to you.

Here's and article on anchor sentinels:  Kellets or Anchor Angels / Sentinels: Uses and Applications (petersmith.net.nz)

Hope this helps.

I wouldn't worry too much about the extra weight in the bow, if you're not racing.  I have a Maxwell VW windlass, it will take both chain and nylon rode.  I have 9/16" plaited line spliced directly to the chain.  The windless handles both flawlessly.

Anchors and anchoring is a topic for which there is no correct answer.  It is very personal.  In part, it depends on the cruising area, bottom composition, depths, weather patterns, etc.  For us, in southwest Florida, our 44# original Bruce, 100 ft chain and 150 ft rode with a sentinel(if conditions warrant), we have no concerns in dragging on anchot.  We will always also you an anchor sail, which further limits what can be radical swinging on anchor and stress on the anchor in strong wind.