Catalinas are not blue water boats!

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blair
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Catalinas are not blue water boats!

I have heard this many times, and it always has me scratching my head.
I know my boat might not be as seaworthy in the nasty stuff as a full keel Island Packet, but neither is a Hunter or Beneteau.
The Catalina Hall of Fame has boats as small as a 36 doing a circumnavigation.
I believe last year we had a 34 singlehand it to Hawaii.
I love my 36. It was the first sailboat I have ever owned. I think it is an excellent day sailor or weekender.
It appears I may be able to retire in the next couple of years, and I am ready to live on a sailboat.
My 36MKII is great for a night or two, but have decided to go bigger. Not sure I ever will go cruising, but would like to be able to do that with my new boat.
Considering the Catalina/Morgan 440 or a C470.
Anyone else here considering the same thing?

 

Blair White
2004 C36 MKII # 2169 "Dash"
Pacific Beach, CA

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newguy
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Easy answer.  Yes, MKIIs are blue-water boats insofar as they carry a CE "A" rating, meaning they have unlimited ocean capabilities.  This means that structure, equipment, and rigging are built to a degree that they are expected to survive anything other than "abnormal" sea states (hurricanes, etc).  We moved from a double-ender 22,000 pound Southern Cross 39 to a Catalina 36 MKII and never felt the 36 was at a significant sea-keeping disadvantage.

Although the MKII might be ocean-capable, your personal comfort may be tied to the size/mass of the boat, your age, and the stuff you want to carry, like tankage and storage.  In general terms, sea motion improves with length and weight.  The internet is full of opinions on keels, rigs, freeboard, sterns, entry, weight, etc.  All have trade-offs.  You have lots of choices.

Nick Caballero
Retired C36/375IA Mk II Technical Editor

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LCBrandt
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My fellow Portland Yacht Club member Craig Mortenson took his Catalina 36 Mk I 'Patriot' around the world in an unusual way. He says that he hates to be on a boat for more than about two months, so he would pick a good weather window and sail the boat to a desired destination; then he'd come home to Portland. When the weather window was fine for his next leg, he'd fly to the boat and sail that leg. Then he'd fly home...et cetera all the way around. He says that he was in no major storms for the entire circumnavigation.

His one major problem was a collision in the middle of the night with a whale. The collision bent the prop shaft so that he couldn't motor, and bent the rudder to 'lock' it slightly off center. This happened (if I recall correctly) somewhere around New Caledonia. He jury-rigged a rudder and sailed for four days to near the Great Barrier Reef, where the Australian coasties came out to tow him through the maze of reefs to a boatyard where repairs could be effected.  

(There's way more interesting stuff to hear regarding his circumnavigation that makes sharing a beer with him well worthwhile. Examples, his method for getting crew for those legs where his PYC buddies couldn't break free; and a near 'brush' with pirates.)
 

Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
 

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Nick

Curious if you know if the Mk1 or MK1.5 had a CE rating or if construction details between the models made one more seaworthly over the other.

 

Gary Smith
93 MK I, Hull #1231
Std rig; wing keel
M35A Oberdorfer conversion
 

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LCBrandt
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Boats sold in Europe must comply with one of four design categories as noted below. The Catalina 36 Mk II (and possibly the Mk I, but I didn't have access to that spec) is certified as a 'Category A - Ocean' vessel.

Seaworthiness Quantified

The following four CE design categories help to quantify a boat’s degree of seaworthiness, based on the wave height and wind speed the boat is designed to encounter and handle. The further offshore the vessel is expected to venture, the higher are the expectations for construction strength, stability, freeboard, reserve buoyancy, resistance to downflooding, deck drainage and other seaworthiness criteria.

CE Categories from A to D

Category A — Ocean. Category A covers largely self-sufficient boats designed for extended voyages with winds of over Beaufort Force 8 (over 40 knots), and significant wave heights above 13 feet, but excluding abnormal conditions such as hurricanes.

Category B — Offshore. Category B includes boats operating offshore with winds up to 40 knots, Beaufort Force 8, and significant seas up to 13 feet.

Category C — Inshore. Category C is for boats operating in coastal waters and large bays and lakes with winds to Force 6, up to 27 knots, and significant seas 7 feet high.

Category D — Inland or sheltered coastal waters. Category D is for boats in small lakes and rivers with winds to Force 4, up to 15 knots, and significant wave heights to 18 inches.

While the European standards are no guarantee that a boat will be suitable in all respects for the conditions in its designated category, they help to separate the purely inshore craft from those capable of operating safely in more demanding conditions.

Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
 

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CLR1294
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We are Livin The Dream on Silent Dream.  We are sailing Hull 91 and lovin our boat.  She is a little light and we have been caught in some major storms that kicked our butt, but the boat took care of us.  It has been three years of living aboard now and we have no complaint’s.  Checkout our blog

Capt Chuck & Linda Reed
Silent Dream 1983 # 91
http://www.CruisingOnSilentDream.blogspot.com   

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blair
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Great info. Thanks.
I'm not able to retire for another two years, and hope to move on to my boat soon.
One motivator to get the bigger boat is I would like a full size bed and shower.
I don't believe I would be comfortable for a long period of time with your standard C36 bed and shower set up.

Blair White
2004 C36 MKII # 2169 "Dash"
Pacific Beach, CA

Tara and Travis
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Blair,
We just bought a Catalina 470 two weeks ago, to move aboard once our youngest graduates high school in another 2 years.  We've only owned our 36 for two years, and have thoroughly enjoyed it, but never really considered it large enough to comfortably live aboard, which is obviously just our preference since many people live on boats much smaller.  Now it's time to sell our 36 (check the classifieds), and start learning the 470.  
Travis and Tara

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blair
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SWEET!
Congratulations.
I know there is an owners forum for the CM440 on Facebook, but not sure about the 470.
 

Blair White
2004 C36 MKII # 2169 "Dash"
Pacific Beach, CA

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Larry thanks for the explanation. It would be interesting to read up on how a boat model is tested for a CE certification

Gary Smith
93 MK I, Hull #1231
Std rig; wing keel
M35A Oberdorfer conversion
 

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It's a funny thing, perspective!   We've lived aboard our Mk I a total of about 4.5 years of the last 11, making four six-month trips to the South Pacific Islands from New Zealand.   Most of this has been just the two of us, and we are happy not to have a larger boat for what we do.
If we had more visitors, or routinely had crew for passages, we would like more space.   We don't intend to do this.
A 'small' boat like ours is about as expensive as I am comfortable with in terms of maintenance, and with just us a larger boat would make us more dependent on electrical assistance for furling, etc.
When we see some smaller boats in the 25 foot plus range, we wonder where they store everything, we have used every corner we can find, just about :-)
All the best, fair winds...
 

 

S.V. Wind Star

Rob & Margie Kyles:    Auckland ,New Zealand
Mk I  Hull #105 1983   Std Rig, Std Keel

 

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blair
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Rob & Margie,

Amazing! Thanks for posting up.
Do you sleep in the v berth?
Have you made any changes to the shower?

Blair

Blair White
2004 C36 MKII # 2169 "Dash"
Pacific Beach, CA

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Rob Kyles
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Hi Blair,
No problem :-)   We live a comparatively Spartan life on our boat, kind of mid range between what we see in fellow travellers' arrangements...
One non negotiable for us was to have our bed set up permanently so we don't have that violated feeling you get when your bedroom is ripped up to check the oil etc.   So yes, we sleep feet forward in the V berth.   This means we can easily (if slightly acrobatically) slip in and out of bed without climbing over each other.   To access the storage I put hinges on the front end of the ply access panel and a short cord from the centre of the aft end with a clip.   If we need into the storage, I can remove the small mattress infill and just tilt the ply cover up and attach the clip to an eye screwed to the 'ceiling'.

The shower was broken when we bought Wind Star, and we've never used it, the thought of drying off the head every shower sounds like work!.   We have small water tanks, 170 litres only, plus 40 in Jerry jugs.   This lasts us three weeks max.   Most of our cruising is done in warm climes so we use 'Crystal. salt water soap and swim then a 300ml squirt of fresh water to de-salt..  Occasionally when in marinas we use the showers there (what a luxury!)   Offshore passages and cold areas we basin wash or use 'wet wipes'.   Not everyone's lifestyle, but cruising in the tropics and northern New Zealand makes it worth it :-)

Payoff for a 'smaller boat is when I have to manhandle the sails to the deck or remove or replace the anchor and chain and so on.

We love our C36, Americans know how to build comfy boats ;-)
All that said, we are moving about a lot, if we were permanently living aboard and we had the money something larger would be pretty necessary, I suspect!

 

S.V. Wind Star

Rob & Margie Kyles:    Auckland ,New Zealand
Mk I  Hull #105 1983   Std Rig, Std Keel

 

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The previous owners of my boat sailed her from California to Tahiti, from Tahiti to Alaska, and from Alaska back to California. They then trucked it to the Mississippi River, sailed out to the Gulf of Mexico, around Florida to the Bahamas, then up the East Coast all the way to the Hudson River, demasted, went through the Eeri Canal, circumnavigated the entire great lakes, and then put her back on a truck back to California, whereupon they sold it to the guy I bought it from.

Joel Schwartz
s/v Get-A-Grip
1993 Catalina 36 Hull #1259
Newport Beach, California

caprice 1050
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Joel

Did the previous owners make any improvements or changes to your C36 before taking their extended cruise. I sail Caprice in some nasty weather in the Gulf of Mexico and out in the Atlantic with no changes in the boat from the way it came from the manufacturer, except I replaced the mast and rigging after damage caused by Hurricane Charley in 2004.

__/)__/)__/)__Capt Mike__/)__/)__/)__
Punta Gorda Florida
1990 Std WK M35 Hull #1050

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JAS
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Thw only upgrades I could detect was a SSB radio, PUR water maker, solar panels, lots of bonding wire, and an inspection port on the holding tank. Beyond that, she seems pretty standard.

Joel Schwartz
s/v Get-A-Grip
1993 Catalina 36 Hull #1259
Newport Beach, California

Lanealoha
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Interesting reading for a new 36 owner.  It seems the real question is whether someone is a bluewater sailor not particularly if the boat is (within reason of course).  Seems lots of people have done what they wanted with their 36's.  Sailing form Ca to Tahiti to Alaska,   multiple trips from NZ to the south Pacific, sounds like the boats are doing just fine....

David Lane
S/V Grace
88' Catalina 36'
Oxnard, Ca
 

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