I "accidentally" bought a new water heater 3 weeks ago. I was sure the original unit had failed, fresh water seemed to be coming from inside it and it is not in great shape. Have been expecting its demise for some time. But after bypassing it we still had a leak somewhere as the pump kept cycling. Hunted around and found a 'T' in a fresh water line hidden behind the water heater that had cracked. The original fittings on the fresh water system seem to disintegrate over time. I *think* I have them all replaced now.
One thing I found in the midst of this is that the wood platform the water heater sits on is rotting. It was obvious when we got the boat there were a lot of leaks in that area for some time. So I am going to address that in the fall, pull the water heater and manifold and put in a new platform.
As part of this I am seriously thinking about moving the water heater and manifold to where the holding tank is and putting a jumbo holding tank crosswise under the aft settee where all that stuff used to reside. We currently only put beer under the half of it in the center of the boat were the AC thing used to live, but we've got room for that essential elsewhere.
It looks like I could get a 40 gallon tank in there from measurements so far, probably even bigger but that seems overkill. I'm not positive yet that the water heater/fresh water manifold will fit in the old holding tank spot though it looks like it all will.
I was going to change the old head lines this winter anyway, they are original and are starting to give off odors. I'll put new lines from engine on at the same time, they look original as well and likely suspect.
Holding tank capacity is our biggest issue, we can go weeks on food and water but just a week on the holding tank. We find that somewhat limiting especially now that we're on a mooring and not at a dock.
Just wondered if anyone has contemplated this or done this, or has any idea why it might not work or be advisable? Seems to me to be almost a no-brainer for us folks who can't just nip out 3 miles and let the macerator rip.
Now cue the comments about how that wouldn't be a problem if I wasn't so full of ______. Fill in the blank. Or about how if I didn't drink so much beer I wouldn't need a bigger holding tank....
If the run of the engine coolant hoses (that supply the heat to the water heater) are made a LOT longer, there will be more back pressure which 'might' reduce the circulation flow rate below optimal for engine cooling. I don't know how much is too much, however.
Rather than move everything, could an additional tank be added such that a 1.5 inch dia hose could connect the two tanks near the bottom? You would need to Tee into the existing tank's vent, of course. As long as the connecting hose was pretty level (no elevation changes), it should work.
I could envision, however, that the pump-out suction might not evacuate both tanks as effectively because of the two vents. That could be remedied with valves to close off one vent at a time depending upon the circumstances.
Just quick ideas to consider. Good luck.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
Bud,
I'm not intimately familiar with the MkII, but from what you say, that sounds like a great idea. One larger tank should work well. Those of us on the left and right coasts are spoiled with the 3 mile ability, but more tank capacity is always a good thing.
Duane,
I think that unless you are using corrugated hose, the length of the plumbing run, within reason, won't make any difference. Electricity yes, plumbing no. Just my thoughts.
Tom Sokoloski
C36/375IA Past Commodore
Noank, CT
I do not know the rules up there , but we use a electro scan treatment system and lone not having to pump out
Bill Miller
S/V Lorraine
Pacific Northwest,Sound Sound
Grapeview,Wa
1990 Mk1
Some good thoughts. WRT 2 tanks, I thought about that but didn't want to go to the complexity of adding another vent/deck waste fitting for a 2nd tank, plus they charge by the tank up here. So 2 X 10 gallon tanks cost $44 to pump out but a single 40 gallon tanks costs $22. Go figure.
Wasn't sure if connecting both tanks together and pumping from a single outlet would be doable, height/angles would have to be pretty identical. Thought maybe I could run the pump out hose to a Y and then put a valve on each tank outlet and switch on the sly as the guy was pumping, but that sounded like a lot of hassle. Since I have to take all this out anyway to fix the rotten wood it doesn't seem to be much more work to just switch the tank locations.
Thought about composting for a while but it's got a lot of drawbacks. Treatment systems are way expensive, use power, need salt and are complex, I prefer KISS systems and holding tanks fit that bill. Also when I read our rules up here I'm not sure they're even allowable since all the Great Lakes and inland waters here are no discharge zones and I am led to believe that no discharge includes even Type 1 systems.
Still mulling the 2nd tank option though a big single tank is still the front runner. If I didn't have to fix that rotten wood though, it would be a different story I think.
There's a lot of wasted space where they put the tank in the Mk II, it could be 5" wider except they left a conduit in there for a water line to the front tank, that 5" adds about 30% capacity as its on the deep side and that line could have been run in a variety of other ways. It could also have been about 6" longer. Don't know what they were thinking when they did that but clearly holding tank capacity was not given enough consideration for us FW sailors.
I haven't consulted any old texts yet, but I suspect Tom's gut feeling is correct; you would have to add a lot of hose to make a significant difference in the back pressure.
Bud, I wasn't thinking about separate discharge deck fittings, but I agree that it might be more complex in the long run.
As for the 'no discharge rules', I am pretty sure that includes 'treated' waste, too.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
[QUOTE=deising;19095]
As for the 'no discharge rules', I am pretty sure that includes 'treated' waste, too.[/QUOTE]
That is true for all of the Great Lakes. No discharge, no way no how.
Gene Foraker
Sandusky Yacht Club
Sandusky, OH
1999 C36 #1786
Gypsy Wagon
[QUOTE=TomSoko;19088]
Duane,
I think that unless you are using corrugated hose, the length of the plumbing run, within reason, won't make any difference. Electricity yes, plumbing no. Just my thoughts.[/QUOTE]
Tom's right. If you look carefully, there is 3/8" hose at the bottom of the thermostat and one at the top of the coolant pump on the engine. On my boat they are connected to 5/8" hoses that go to the water heater. The larger hoses are there for two purposes: 1) to connect to the 5/8" nipples on the hot water heater; 2) to reduce the piping pressure drop (bigger hoses are just like bigger wires - less voltage, i.e., pressure drop).
One of our skippers did this:
[url]http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Cabin_Heater[/url]
As far as "engineering" pressure drops in a closed system such as this, only the longest hose run determines the pump's pressure drop calculation. In Bob's case, the run to the new heater was longer than the run to the existing hot water heater. Assuming that the pressure drops in the new space heater
and the hot water heater are pretty much the same, he essentially almost doubled the hose length with no problems.
As an HVAC engineer, I see no reason you can't move the heater.
Good luck.
Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)
Hey Bud.
Get in touch with Gunkholer on here and ask him about how his system had worked for him. He installed a 2nd waste tank and I belive he uses just one outlet. They cruise the great lakes each summer and needed the extra storage.
Randy Sherwood
Mutualfun 1990 # 1057
T/R W/K M35a
Home. Charlotte, Mi.
Boat. St Augustine,Fl.
Stu
When you replaced your heater hoses did you put any kind of shut off between the engine and the water heater?
Bill Miller
S/V Lorraine
Pacific Northwest,Sound Sound
Grapeview,Wa
1990 Mk1
Bill, no I didn't. And I didn't add a thermostatic mixing valve, either, we don't have any little kids and don't see that ever happening. :o:)
Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)
I removed my hot water heater today. Tons of fun.
Anyway, it says right on the label, this.
I'll still run my 180 F thermostat. Just hotter water. :o
Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)