OK, here I am your very own MKI technical editor raising my hand for help.
I joined the fleet 9 group for a lovely trip to Petaluma over the weekend, this cosisted of a fairly long 3 hour motoring trip in SKINNY WATER. The fleet was returning on Monday but due to home projects we left on Sunday with the incoming tide. Motoring down river about two hours out of Petaluma, I commented to myself how great the enging was running putting out its constant D D D D D D D at 2500 RPM. About fourty five minutes later at buoy #7 on the way out the channel with very thin water on each side and six more channel markers to go before deep water, the RPM's roll back to about 1500. I first assumed I had bumped the throttle, I moved it up with no joy just black smoke out the exhaust. I thought I had fouled the prop, put the transmission in neutral, engine still would not throttle up. I assumed we had contaminated fuel and plugged filters as I knew we had plenty of fuel and the engine was not surging. I opted to just keep the engine running at the current RPM as it was fairly stable and motor sail out of the channel. We motor sailed for another hour past the Richmond San Rafeal bridge, I had decent wind and figured I could sail the rest of the way home and shut down the engine.
Ten minutes later the wind died, tried restarting the engine, no joy. I replaced both the primary and main filters and started to bleed the injectors and found the fuel pump would not run I figured that was the problem not contaminated fuel. I tried jumpering the power wire from the macerator to the fuel pump and still the pump did not run.
We decided that we would do the ancient mariner thing and just sail. We slowly worked our way past the lee of Angle Island and into the slot where it was blowing 20-25KTS, we were on a ripping reach, the fog dropped and we had an empty tanker bearing down on us with a meanacing bow wake showing brightly and an even more menacing fog horn that tightened the sphincters of all aboard. I knew he would be turning out to sea past Angel Island or continuing south on the west side to Treasuare Island to the anchorage and we were on a course to the south side of T.I. He passed about a quater mile to our starboard but, in the conditons it was very uncomfortable until we could see that his course was west of us.
We carried our high speed reach on past the lee of Treasure Island and under the bay bridge. We made the entrance to the Oakland Estuary about 8:45 PM and the wind quit. The tide was going in and we recieved a little push from that and managed between .5 and 1.5 knots, at times just enough to maintain steerage. a few commercial vessels, ferrys and tugs passed, their wake eliminating our headway and steerage. This went on for several hours until the wind totaly quit about a mile and a half into the estutary. A small thirty foot plastic classic slowly motored upon us and I aske that he tow us at least past Jack London Square where if we drifted to shore we would at least have docks near by. His little 8 HP outboard would only run about half throttle, he took us abeam of Mairiner Village. We let our guests go ashore with our savior were he gave them a ride to our marina. We continiued to ghost along and managed to sail into our slip at 1:30 AM
Now back to my question, it is one I should be able to answer but have come up feble, can anyone tell me the circuit the fuel pump gets it power from, it obviously comes from the engine panel but, I see no reference in my manual about the circuit. I ask as when trouble shooting underway I had jumpered the macerator to the fuel pump and had one of my crew momentaraly hit the switch for the macerator. Later when it came time to turn on running lights we found we had none. We also lost water pressure and some other systems. One of my crew reset some of the breakers and systems came back on line except for the fuel pump. I would like to understand the circuit before I start my trouble shooting of the pump. I would assume the engine harness upgrade schematic would show this but I have no access to it at my office.
As for the pump they cost about $60 from an automotive supply house, I may install a back up with a switch to eliminate another long night on the water. Never liked this aspect of the Universal/Kubota motor, much rather have a engine driven lift pump that eliminates the need for any electrical source to keep the engine running.
Cepheus dream
C36 MK I # 825
MK I Tech Editor No Mas
Steve
Not sure about the origin on the earlier model but on my M35A the circuit for the fuel pump runs through a 10A circuit breaker located low on the starb aft part of the engine . If your wiring includes this and you popped other breakers I'd bet that's the culprit and hopefully just needs a reset
Gary
Gary Smith
93 MK I, Hull #1231
Std rig; wing keel
M35A Oberdorfer conversion
Gary,
I removed and overhauled my engine a couple years ago, there are no breakers attached to it. There are some other differences on your M35, I believe your engine also has a relay that shuts the pump off if you loose oil pressure. There is an inline fuse in the engine harness that as I recall goes to either the alternator field or starter relay, I will check it when I get back to the boat.
I have seen some notes about changing the electric pump from the original Facet/Bendix style to a newer cheaper facet pump. The newer style pump only costs about sixty dollars, I may mount two in series with a switch to select the active one always having a backup ready to go.
Cepheus dream
C36 MK I # 825
MK I Tech Editor No Mas
Steve, I'd still like to know what you find out about the wiring. Mine quit working at sea a couple of weeks ago. I ran a lead directly from the battery to the pump (which I have remounted under the sink) as a temporary fix. Need to rewire it permanently and would like to hear what you learn about routing.
thanks
nick
Nick Tonkin
*Former* Website Administrator, C36/375IA
*Former* owner, C36 tr/fk #255, Santa Barbara, CA
Steve, our fuel pump is run off the ignition switch. As noted earlier, the newer engine have the oil pressure switch and glow plugs energizing the fuel pump, but ours runs all the time the ignition switch is on.
Page 31, here: [url]http://www.c34.org/manuals/ServiceManual.pdf[/url]
Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)
Steve.
Our boat was wired so the fuel pump comes on as soon as I turn the key on and stayed on. My bio should say the year and type if motor. Our friends boat is a 92 with the new style hull but has the same motor as ours but his is wired to come on when the glow plugs are on then the pump shuts off once the switch for the glow plugs is disengaged. I brought this up before about same motors but wired different and never got really a clear answer if it shoukd be on all the time or off to save wear on the electric fuel pump. So I changed mine so it only is on when it starts.
Randy Sherwood
Mutualfun 1990 # 1057
T/R W/K M35a
Home. Charlotte, Mi.
Boat. St Augustine,Fl.
Randy,
I think the MKII boats have a feature that cuts power to the pump if the engine is producing no oil pressure, obviously there is no oil pressure before starting the engine so the pump is powered through the glow plug circuit prior to start.
I am not certain about this but, that is how I recall it from other conversations here.
As for my boat, I am certain the pump gets it's power through the ignition switch. What I do not recall is if it goes direct to the pump, through the engine harness terminal block or if it is fused anywhere in it circuit. I will assume that the pump has failed as I tried jumpering power from the mOacerate and the pump did not run, I also had no power to the pump with ignition switch on. Multiple failures can happen but, if the pump failed and took out a fuse this would explain no power at the pump. We also needed to reset breakers to get running lights on after my macerator jumper trick. Just do not know if the pump circuit is fused.
Thank you for the thought though.
Cepheus dream
C36 MK I # 825
MK I Tech Editor No Mas
Steve, you're right about the newer engines, as I noted before. ([url]http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.msg41829.html#msg41829[/url] for a loong discussion of this "feature" if anyone is interested)
Also, as far as I can tell, Steve, there is no fuse in that wiring to the fuel pump, based both on the link I sent in my last post and what is on my 1986 boat.
Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)
Had a similar problem with my 34 Mk 2, replaced the pump, all well.
My engine was disabled at a very inopportune time - I "jumped" the fuel pump to the starting motor electrical stud and got the engine working again.
The culprit was the Oil Pressure switch - After trouble shooting it was the switch that was faulty. A nice fix for under 10$
jason
Jason Thistle - "Chummy Jigger" 1986, C36MK1, Newfoundland, Canada.