Hi Matthew
I am currently planning on adding the blue sea add a battery kit and was hoping to glue a piece of 1/2 plywood (etc) to the inside of the hull directly behind the panel and mount the ACR onto that newly glued wood. The previous owner did something similar to add an AC bus and it seemed to work out well..
You currently have 2 x 6v Golf cart batteries and a starting battery in the original aft games table seat? I would love to see a picture. I am looking at replacing two G24 with G24/27/31 or 6Vs (greatest AH/RC possible) within the aft games table seat. I was also going to add a cranking battery, but have not decided on location yet; if i could get 2 x 6Vs and cranking battery in the afte games table seat that would be a good option. Because the ACR will be at the panel i dont think it makes much sense to have the cranking battery all the way back under the after bunk as many do to keep it as close to the engine(alternator/starter) as possible..

Eric
LEOMARE
#476

Maine Sail is really down on the Blue Sea switch. He has had many of his customers have problems with it.

[URL="http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=848465&highli..."]http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=848465&highli...

[QUOTE=gforaker;13394]Maine Sail is really down on the Blue Sea switch. He has had many of his customers have problems with it.

[URL="http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=848465&highli..."]http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=848465&highli...

Gene,

I think the OP is just installing an ACR relay not the Dual Circuit Plus switch + relay but I could be wrong..

I am not necessarily "down on that switch" but rather want folks to fully understand exactly what they are getting (simplicity) and what they give up (redundancy) before buying one. I actually install quite a few but all my customers know full well what they gain and lose by installing one. On fishing boats that start the motor 30-40 times per day they are the cats meow but on cruisng sailboats with large deeply cycled banks I am not as much a fan..

[quote=ericrrmorin;13391]
You currently have 2 x 6v Golf cart batteries and a starting battery in the original aft games table seat? I would love to see a picture. I am looking at replacing two G24 with G24/27/31 or 6Vs (greatest AH/RC possible) within the aft games table seat. I was also going to add a cranking battery, but have not decided on location yet

[/quote]

I have 4 X 6 volts (US Battery 2200 - 464 A/hr total) under the aft small table seat. I built a new box to contain them and since they are not the extra tall batteries there was no cutting necessary. They are banks 1 and 2 on the main battery switch

I put the starting battery in the locker right under the entrance to the aft berth, the cable run is only 4 feet to the starter, that's closer than from where the house bank is. The starting battery is a physically small AGM battery and it fits in there quite nicely on its side on a little platform I built for it.

That's on a Mk II though, not sure if the dimensions of those places are the same, or even exist, on a Mk I.

I charge the house bank directly off the alternator and the starting battery through a Xantrex Echo Charger. There is a manual combiner at the engine as well as separate disconnects on each circuit. I can start from either of the two house banks, the starting battery or any combination of them.

We're into our third year on this setup and it is working great, extremely simple and puts the charge where it is needed most.

Hello All,

I have 4 6V AGM batteries under the aft game table seat. There is a glassed in piece of plywood that they sit on and the straps are connected to. Its tight, but it works! There is another piece of wood glassed in at an angle on the hull behind them where the battery monitoring brain, shunt, and fuse are mounted. The previous owner built a sweet looking vented teak box under the nav table seat and shortened the seat tube so it connects on top of it. Under this vented box we have our magnum battery charger and inverter. We also had a 12 v AGM that is mounted on a platform under the aft berth to the port side of the prop shaft. We have a battery cut off swithch for this battery mounted low on the aft wall of the galley. Our over all cut off/switch is in a blue seas panel that fits nicely into the previous electrical panel location. All wiring behind the panel is mounted to a piece of plywood glassed in behind the panel access door.

Good luck with the project!

John

[QUOTE=Maine Sail;13396]Gene,

I am not necessarily "down on that switch" but rather want folks to fully understand exactly what they are getting (simplicity) and what they give up (redundancy) before buying one. [/QUOTE]

The 2 circuit switch's simplicity appeals to me. I would like to understand why you think it compromises redundancy?

[QUOTE=Maine Sail;13396]
On fishing boats that start the motor 30-40 times per day they are the cats meow but on cruisng sailboats with large deeply cycled banks I am not as much a fan..[/QUOTE]
Can you please elaborate?

Since we are on a closely related topic; i have always been told NOT to switch from battery to battery with the 1-2-all switch while the engine is running because it will harm the voltage regulator on the alternator. Is this accurate?

Thanks to all for the great feedback/info on battery placement!

[quote=ericrrmorin;13408]

Since we are on a closely related topic; i have always been told NOT to switch from battery to battery with the 1-2-all switch while the engine is running because it will harm the voltage regulator on the alternator. Is this accurate?

[/quote]

Depends on the switch, find your model number and then check it out with the manufacturer. If it is "make before break" then you are OK, but if it is "break before make" then you likely will blow the diodes on the alternator. You can install a zap stop as a precaution though.

[QUOTE=bstreet;13409]Depends on the switch, find your model number and then check it out with the manufacturer. If it is "make before break" then you are OK, but if it is "break before make" then you likely will blow the diodes on the alternator. You can install a zap stop as a precaution though.[/QUOTE]

Thanks
I think i have a break-before-make selector switch because i have fried diodes by switching batteries in the past (according to alternator repair tech). I will verify.
Eric

[QUOTE=Chachere;13413]Here's the hypothetical using the Blue Sea's switch, as I understand it: One bank dies, and you can't start your engine. So you switch to "combine" but now your dead bank is sucking down the voltage in the good bank, rather than permitting you to use the remaining good bank alone to crank your engine (or, say, power up your VHF to call for help).[/QUOTE]

ah.. i see. The way i was looking at the add a battery kit in general was a method to ensure both banks (soon to be 1 house + 1 Crank) to get charge from a single alternator with "isolation" *, and eliminate the need to start my engine on "all" in order to get a charge to both banks. Breaking down my requirements now, i think the ACR satisfies charging requirements and a zap stop** satisfies requirement to switch batteries after engine starts if required (although much less of one with ACR).

* Anyone know if the SI ACR (from the add a battery kit) isolates the two batteries by actually switching power to the second battery or does it simply combine?
**I think i have a break-before-make selector switch because i have fried diodes by switching batteries in the past (according to alternator repair tech).

Any other product recommendations for a good value ACR (or similar function)?

Thanks

[QUOTE=ericrrmorin;13415]Breaking down my requirements now, i think the ACR satisfies charging requirements and a zap stop** satisfies requirement to switch batteries after engine starts if required (although much less of one with ACR).

[/QUOTE]

Zap stops are often a ONE TIME use product. The problem is you don't know you "used" it so the next time you pass through OFF you still blow the diodes. Balmar makes a similar product with a fuse in it but the same thing happens and you don't know you blew the fuse so you can still blow your alt.

The only sure fire way to eliminate blown diodes is to route the alt directly to the house bank and put a fuse within 7" of the battery for the pos alt feed wire. I also install a "service switch" so the alt can be disconnected when working on the motor..

Here's some more reading on battery switches & Universal Engine wiring:
[B][URL="http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=135558"]
Universal Engines - Wiring Harness Upgrade[/URL][/B]

[B][URL="http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=137615"]1/BOTH/2/OFF Switches Thoughts & Musings[/URL][/B]

The DCP switch is a disaster waiting to happen. Maine Sail discussed it, but read these, too.

The BS DCP switich is just that: BS!!! Stupid, stupid concept.

AGM Battery Issues and the Blue Seas Dual Circuit Switch (from Maine Sail) "DARN AGM Batteries"
[url]http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=848465&highli... Reply #18 by Maine Sail explains WHY.

Alternator Regulator Wiring Diagrams [url]http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4548.0.html[/url]

How Alternators & Regulators Work (by Maine Sail): [url]http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=125392[/url]

Basic Battery Wiring Diagrams This is a very good basic primer for boat system wiring: [url]http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6604.0.html[/url] [added 9/21/11] Maine Sail's discussion parallels this one and is referenced.

Simply get your AO OFF the C post of the switch and never use a BS DCP.

Ever.

I'm not opinionated about this at all...:):D

[QUOTE=Chachere;13416]If you still have the stock battery switch, its probably the same as mine, since my boat is just 10 numbers lower than yours (#466). I think mine is "make-before-break" -- at least I haven't fried diodes yet. [/QUOTE]
Likely they are the same. I made the assumption that it was a break-before-make based on what the alternator tech said regarding the blown diodes; someone could have moved the switch to the "off" position for all i know and blown the diodes.
I am going to get the model number to confirm.

Thanks to everyone who has posted info and links to other relevant threads/resources, its all been very helpful.

MAKE BEFORE BREAK

I think a lot of this discussion about these switches had to do with trying to figure out why diodes were popping when folks switched their switches because the engine was running and the alternator output was interrupted. And the AO was on the C post, making it a "charging" as well as a battery "use" switch. To say nothing of the "brother-in-law" syndrome. :)

But the point has been made that regardless of whether the switch actually was a MBB after a period of time the switch contacts could get dirty and essentially make that design feature moot.

So even if you have one you think or confirm was MBB when it was first installed, it may not be today.

You can easily check it by turning on some lights and moving the switch. If the lights dim, your switch isn't MBB anymore, or maybe never was.

The whole discussion should be about relocating your AO from the C post of the switch to the house bank.

That way, you can turn the switch OFF and still not harm the alternator.

[QUOTE=ericrrmorin;13408]The 2 circuit switch's simplicity appeals to me. I would like to understand why you think it compromises redundancy?

Can you please elaborate?

Since we are on a closely related topic; i have always been told NOT to switch from battery to battery with the 1-2-all switch while the engine is running because it will harm the voltage regulator on the alternator. Is this accurate?

Thanks to all for the great feedback/info on battery placement![/QUOTE]

Eric, here's why, in addition to that reference to Darn AGMs post by Maine Sail.

OEM 1-2-B Switch Wiring History [url]http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4949.msg30101.html#msg30101[/url]

Basic Battery Wiring Diagrams This is a very good basic primer for boat system wiring: [url]http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6604.0.html[/url] [added 9/21/11]

[added 1/31/2012] This is another very good basic primer for boat system wiring: The 1-2-B Switch by Maine Sail (brings together a lot of what this subject is all about)
[url]http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=137615[/url]

Bud's right, of course, but if you get the AO off the C post of the 1-2-B switch, you avoid ever having to interrupt the AO (alternator output) and avoid frying any diodes.

That's why.

Stu