We have a 1989 C36 Tall rig.
Our winter boat yard conducts a courtesy rig inspection (with a rigger) and they have reported a possible problem with the two back stay wires where they leave the swaged fittings.
If you can picture this:
The two wires comes out of the two swaged fittings and head on up to a single metal sleeve, then a single backstay wire heads up to the mast.
Ok, here is my question- The yard has indicated that the chainplate coming up through the stern, at the very top few inches of it, needs to be slightly bent forward to straighten out the slight angle that seems present in the wires. They feel that at the slight bend in the wire, the load on that wire would be concentrated there and may therefore be a weak point.
Sorry I do not have a picture!
The suggested fix by the rigger is to take a big crescent wrench and bend the tops of the chainplates slightly forward until the wire lines up straight as they come out from the two swaged fittings.
Makes technical sense, in terms of not wanting to load the wire at any extreme angle, but I am just wondering if anyone else has ever seen this issue before and would they recommend this as a fix?
Laura Olsen
Past Commodore
S/V Miramar
hull 938 (MKI 1989, TR,WK, M25xp)
Edgemere, MD
My stern chainplates ARE bent that way...so,yes,i would do whatever it takes to take the bend out of the rigging wire.Yes,a big wrench and bend them in place,worth trying imho.
"Sailing Still" 1990 C36 M25 wing
Sail Canada/Transport Canada training
Gibsons Harbour BC
www.landsendbc.ca
In an ideal world one would remove each chainplate individually and then bend them in a vise. It's not a perfect world, but how accessable are the chainplate fasteners? If it's practical to remove them, then that's what I would do.
Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
Laura - I would advise to leave them just the way they are. If your C36 is of 1989 model and there has been no problem - I would say that this is not a problem.
I would not advise in bending them with vice grips or with any other means. Once you bend the metal it becomes weaker. Just think of the top of a canned food when you twist it back and forth a few times it breaks off.
To properly bend the metal without damage - it would have to be removed from the boat and heated and bent.
Let us know what you decided to do.
Haro Bayandorian, 1999 C36 MKII, Sail La Vie #1787, M35B,
Coyote Point, San Mateo, CA.
Laura,
I understand what the rigger is saying. Ideally, you want the backstay to be exactly in line with the top portion of the chainplate so that it is not being flexed each time there is a cyclic (changing) load on the backstay. This is only a small problem if the mismatch of the angle is very small. It gets worse with more of a mismatched angle, higher backstay loads, and more cycles.
I would carefully look for any sign of cracking at the chainplates, especially where they bend. I suppose I can agree with the caution against trying to bend the chainplate at this point in time. If it shows no evidence of cracking after all this time in use, it is likely that the mismatched angle is not enough to be a problem.
A good picture from the side would be helpful.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
Laura
After all these years of service, "If it ain't broken, don't fixit."
__/)__/)__/)__Capt Mike__/)__/)__/)__
Punta Gorda Florida
1990 Std WK M35 Hull #1050
We have the same issues on our C34s. When I redid the standing rigging I had toggles installed.
Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)
Best practice would be to have toggles in here. I suspect that this is a total non-issue, but the proper fix would be to cut the terminals off, swage on new eyes, and make up the lost 2" with a toggle if they are not there already. I don't think bending the chainplate is the preferred method here.
If you want to go down this road, all of the C36's I have seen (1st gen, anyways) have the forestay tang misaligned in the same manner.
Jason V
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Here's our toggle.
Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)
Thanks, Stu. That looks nothing like our 1999 model, of course.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
IMHO, if the misalignment is enough that the wire is bent where it exits the swage, I'd want to correct it. A toggle is probably the best solution, but if that wasn't possible, I'd rather make a slight bend in the chainplate than have a misalignment at the swage.
On my '88 C30, I noticed that the port upper shroud met the mast at an angle. Up the mast I went and it was apparent that the two tangs to which the T-swage attached, were misaligned. That caused the upper fitting to be at an angle you could see from the cockpit.:eek: I had the mast removed, took the tangs off and bent them in a vice until the holes lined up. When the mast went back up, everything was lined up. I'd have used a toggle, but I don't think there was enough thread left on the turnbuckles to tack up the length (don't remember that was 20+ years ago..!). It may have been OK without that 'fix', but I wasn't willing to take the chance.
Gary and Cathy Price
1997 C36 Mk II Tall Rig/Wing Keel Imagine...
Hull # 1617
Worton Creek, Md.
Northern Chesapeake Bay
Laura,
My 1989 tall rig is like this too. I have a split back stay.
I see no evidence of distress on the chain plates or the transom mounting points/bolts so I'm concluding that the chain plates are not disturbed by the angular mismatch.
OTOH, the stress on the rigging wire/terminals concerns me so I like Stu's approach, add toggles.
Cheers,
Graham
Graham Mackey
SV Nostromo
1989 C36 908
Tall Rig/Wing Keel
Toronto, Canada
Oh, you guys and your NEW boats!
I just redid our exhaust hose. Hmm, let's see 2011-1986 = 25 years.
So you get to do yours in 2024!
Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)
What an interesting thread of responses this has been!
For any of you that have "read" me here for the past few years, you already know I am a science geek and mechanical type. Therefore, ALL of the issues raised by this discussion have been items I have considered as follows (not in any particular order):
1. been this way a long time now- Yep- I agree with that sentiment. This is probably what made me REALLY question the rigger's general comment about it AND
2. just bend it with a wrench???- WHAT??? Man, I just can't fathom doing that to a piece of such important structural metal, so I was not going to jump into that step without real careful thought! As noted by others that commented, metal does NOT like to be bent UNLESS you make it maleable in some way again (e.g. heat). But who the heck knows what amount of heat, etc.
3. IT was made a certain way to begin with- if it ain't broke don't fix it. I sometimes forget to REALLY pay attention to this one. Thus I started the process of thinking about what the rigger said. Thankfully, this group allows one to reflect and seek advice in a neutral, supportive way.
My inclination at this point is to leave it be and perhaps address it some other way when it needs new wire.
Laura Olsen
Past Commodore
S/V Miramar
hull 938 (MKI 1989, TR,WK, M25xp)
Edgemere, MD
Just FYI, here is how it is on our 1999 Mk II (see photo)
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/