Powering the Fridge

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ajcastagno
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Powering the Fridge

Hey Guys,

I recently installed an Isotherm compressor and plate in my ice box and added a digital display to show me the interior temp. Works well... although with the OEM insulation it can get into the low 50's on a hot GA 100 degree day.... We only keep beverages in there so not too concerned... it keeps it at 32 degrees when not crazy heat.

My question is, I wired it off the original fridge wiring so the panel switch would work.... on shore power the battery charger keeps everything going.... but I am concerned that it is constantly drawing and could hurt my batteries, they are consistently low on fluids every time I check.... I saw isotherm has a 110-12v converter but it is pretty price 230 or so on defender.

What I would ultimately like is when I connect to shore power it uses the converter directly with no interaction with the batteries, when I disconnect it automatically switches to battery circuit... Is there something out there off the shelf that would do that? Sounds like a relay might be able to do that if wired correctly.... thoughts?

Tony

Tony Castagno
S/V Terra Nova (Hull #22)
Atlanta GA, Lake Lanier-based
1983 C-36 mkI M25XPB

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deising
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A few thoughts:

When you are connected to shore power with a properly working battery charger, any DC loads you have are effectively being supplied directly by the battery charger. The batteries are not really involved. I can explain in detail, if needed.

Your batteries should not experience significant water loss unless they are being overcharged. You need to have a good battery charger capable of sending the battery condition and regulating the charging voltage appropriately.

I presume you have one run of wire from the refrigerator switch on the panel to the refer compressor. Depending upon where you tap off an additional wire for a separate device, you could be experiencing a larger voltage drop in the wiring, which can be very bad for your operation and compressor.

Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/

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ajcastagno
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Duane,

Thanks for the quick reply... it's been quite a few years since my Electrical Engineering days at the Academy LOL.... I do have a very good Battery charger with Ammeter Draw indicator bulkhead mounted in the port lazarette close to the compressor. I assumed since the compressor power is coming off of the fridge switch wire and routed through the thermostat that it had the batteries in the loop. I assume that if the batteries are topped off, the compressor draw will run off the "top" of the batteries... but in the end isn't it all running through the battery plates? Can you give me some more detail? I was just thinking taking the batteries out of the loop on shore power with a dedicated converter might make a difference.....

Thanks,
Tony

Tony Castagno
S/V Terra Nova (Hull #22)
Atlanta GA, Lake Lanier-based
1983 C-36 mkI M25XPB

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deising
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Hi, Tony.

You are welcome. Here is more detail.

Your shore power charger wire runs to the battery bank and applies voltage to the battery bank and ALL the wiring connected to it. Imagine your battery bank is fully charged. When you turn on the fridge load, simultaneously the battery will start to provide current, AND the charger will sense that the load has decreased the voltage, so it will turn on and raise the voltage again. That voltage/current supplied by the charger will power the fridge and the already fully charged batteries will sit there with no real change.

If you lost shore power for 30 minutes, the batteries take over all the load and slowly discharge (not very much in 30 minutes). When the shore power is restored, the battery charger will supply whatever the fridge needs, plus enough to recharge the batteries.

I am not a battery expert, but I believe overcharging (too much voltage for too long) is the chief reason for excessive water loss. If you are sure you have high losses, you need to check the voltage the charger uses for the Bulk, Absorption, and Float phases of charging.

Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/

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It would be helpful to know specifically what battery charger you have. You only mentioned "very good..with ammeter...". Losing water from your batteries is a symptom of inefficient, at best, charging.

Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)

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ajcastagno
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I will get the make and model of the charger, the P/O installed it... I was just excited it wasn't a cheap little black box type affair.... it is pretty substantial.... I assume the bulk absorption and float are built in and not adjustable? I will dig deeper...

Tony

Tony Castagno
S/V Terra Nova (Hull #22)
Atlanta GA, Lake Lanier-based
1983 C-36 mkI M25XPB

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Tony, WADR, sometimes the little black box may be better than the older hunkin' box. :):):)

The reason i asked is that older boats came with what are now very questionable chargers.

So, yes, it would be helpful if you could let us know what make and model it is, and a picture may even help, too.

Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)

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Here is a picture of the battery charger....

It is a C-Charger 20Amp 2000 Series.... What say you?

Tony

Tony Castagno
S/V Terra Nova (Hull #22)
Atlanta GA, Lake Lanier-based
1983 C-36 mkI M25XPB

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BudStreet
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Pretty basic unit, I just read their docs from their website which says it goes into bulk charge at 14.5 volts for 4 hours then into float at 13.6 for flooded lead acid. That's not the way a really good charger does it. There are no adjustments. Almost sounds like a ferroresonant unit with a timer but maybe not. At any rate, appears to not be a high end unit. A timed 4 hour bulk charge at 14.5 volts on a battery bank that does not need it will definitely increase water consumption.

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deising
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I agree with Bud that the charger is definitely not a high-end unit. Can't say it is your problem, but I had a charger fail on me and it was cooking the batteries by severe overcharging. The only way to tell (that i know of) is to measure the voltage it is applying at various stages of the charging cycle.

An expert would advise you better, but I would try this: Check that your electrolyte level is good. Disable the charger then discharge the battery bank a bit so that the resting voltage is perhaps 12.5 or so. Then turn on the charger and measure and record the voltage with a multimeter. Take measurements every 15 minutes and see how it behaves until the voltage stabilizes at the float value (factory set for 13.6V).

If it takes hours and doesn't seem to ever drop to 13.6V or so, then it "may" be overcharging. BTW, the capacity of your battery bank plays a role in the time involved with a larger bank taking longer to recharge, especially with a small 20A charger.

Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/

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stu jackson c34
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Tony,

Bud and Duane have identified the major potential issues with your charger. Since you have an older boat, there's no way for us to tell when that charger was installed. In most, but certainly not all cases, the presence of an ammeter on a charger means it's pretty old, and perhaps built before true three stage charging (plus equalization) came into being based on proper battery charging regimens promoted by the Ample Power Company in Seattle in the later 80s.

Over the course of many years discussing chargers, we identified some that were questionable, Charles being among them, ProMariner FLYBACKS being the other (NOT the [B]new [/B]ProMariners which are identical to the Sterling Ultra Pros).

You might be interested in this 2002 discussion, starting with Reply #12.

[url]http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,605.0.html[/url]

Good luck, if it was my boat, I'd take Bud and Duane's suggestions and start doing some voltage and time measurements to determine how the charger works, after you identify if it is one of the questionable older models.

PS - added 8/17: please recognize that this link was written in 2002, with a 2005 followup. The Xantrex chargers available back then were superb. NOT ANYMORE. Please, stay away from Xantrex equipment. Maine Sail has written an excellent battery charger How To: [url]http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=125606[/url] It includes recommendations for brands of new chargers that he suggests are quality and fairly priced.

Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)

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ajcastagno
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Thanks for all the help guys.... I will take your suggestions and read the threads and measure.... I'm suspecting this was added quite some time ago....

Tony

Tony Castagno
S/V Terra Nova (Hull #22)
Atlanta GA, Lake Lanier-based
1983 C-36 mkI M25XPB

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