Hi, all.
I have completed the vast majority of boat tasks in preparation for our 6+month cruise starting in April. As I was polishing the stem fitting, I noted with great dismay, that the tang just below the forestay toggle has a large crack on both sides. In other words, only the center 2/3 of the tang 'appears' to be solid.
Obviously, I am glad to have caught it when I did (although it most likely could/should have been discovered much earlier). I will replace it rather than trust to a weld repair.
Moments ago I emailed Ken at Catalina Yachts, but my experience with CY to get part support has been very poor. If I don't hear back from them in a few days, can anyone offer alternative suggestions?
I re-read the JibSheet article about replacing the fitting, but that sailor chose to have his re-welded. I hope I can remove the fitting without too much difficulty, but that is asking a lot.
Edited to add photo: The cracks are on both sides and are visible at least 1/8 inches towards the center of the tang.
Thanks,
Duane
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/

Very fortunate that you found it before complete failure. As an alternative, Catalina Direct lists Stem Fittings but I didn't find one specifically for the C36. Maybe a call to them while you are waiting to hear from CY would turn something up? Good Luck
_____________
Harold Baker
S/V Lucky Duck
Duncan Bay Boat Club
Cheboygan Michigan - Lake Huron
1989 C-36 mkI TR/WK M25XP
Thanks, Harold.
As I look at my photo again, I will admit to not having given any thought to the purpose of that athwarthship pin just behind the cracked tang.
I am not near the boat to look right now. Does anyone know?
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
Looks suspiciously like the welded on flanges have created a hard spot and caused the cracks?
S.V. Wind Star
Rob & Margie Kyles: Auckland ,New Zealand
Mk I Hull #105 1983 Std Rig, Std Keel
I completely agree. There are probably two factors here:
1. The hard spot from the weld that you mentioned, making the metal less malleable/more brittle in that area.
2. The fact that the geometry changes abruptly introduces a concentration of stresses. In 'pure' tension, that would not be such big deal, but the tang looks to be bent at an angle ever-so-slightly different than the forestay makes from the attachement to the masthead. That would mean each tensile load cycle on the forestay also introduces some slight bending moment on the tang, and guess where the weakest spot would be? - at that area that cracked.
Now that there is a crack, the stress concentration goes up radically and it would only be a mtter of time before failure.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
[QUOTE=deising;11901]Thanks, Harold.
As I look at my photo again, I will admit to not having given any thought to the purpose of that athwarthship pin just behind the cracked tang.
I am not near the boat to look right now. Does anyone know?[/QUOTE]
That's where I connect the jib when it's not on the furler
Carl Wehe
1985 C36TM #443
Hillsboro Inlet,FL
Thanks, Carl.
BTW, I have received fast response from CY parts regarding the availability of the replacement, but no definitive answer yet. It appears like one may need to be fabricated, and with all due respect to CY, it would seem best for me to go directly to Garhauer for that, unless I find a very trusted local fabricator for that work.
I am told that I may HAVE to ship the cracked part to ensure exact hole placement. In this age of engineering drawings and interchangeable parts, that is a little surprising, but perhaps they have learned form experience that they cannot trust the parts are really to 'spec.'
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
Duane, why not take some pictures with a ruler showing the holes and/or make up a drawing?
Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)
Stu, that is an option. Getting it off the boat would allow me to make much more accurage measurements than with it on the boat surrounded by two bow rollers.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
Another option, once it's off the boat. Make a tracing pattern by taping paper on the piece, then going over it with the side of a pencil. I'd make 2, one on the front/flat side of the tang, and another on the side. That would identify the exact placement of the holes, how big they are, and where exactly the bends occur. I've done this for myself when making up things for the boat in my shop that need to be exact.
I'm watching this thread as I also have a crack in my stem fitting. However, mine is different. The crack is in the weld where the horizontal piece, which the athwartship pin goes through, meets the tang. I'm not certain that's a structural issue, but I'm going to have it looked at by a surveyor. I'm going to try to get a pic of it this weekend, and will post it for comparison. It would appear that this particular part might have a design issue.
Gary and Cathy Price
1997 C36 Mk II Tall Rig/Wing Keel Imagine...
Hull # 1617
Worton Creek, Md.
Northern Chesapeake Bay
Major success!
With the help of a friend with thin arms, who is much more flexible than I am, we got the cracked stem fitting off in less than an hour. He dropped a few washers and one nut inside the boat, but I plan to replace all the fasteners anyway.
The hardest part was getting the fitting up and past the rub rail extrusion. There was temporary interference that a hammer eventually resolved with the aluminum losing the battle.
Now, I am shipping the part to Garhauer on Monday and I know they will come through for me. BTW, I asked about working to a drawing and they said it is still risky to do. I can handle the shipping cost and time, and that is what I will do.
I should also mention that Ken Roy at the Largo, FL location was super to work with. We traded 8 emails and one phone call inside of 48 hours and his only concern was that I got my problem solved.
I emailed Frank Butler and Gerry Douglass with my praise for Ken's efforts.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
Let me add some praise in favor of hammers. They have proven to be extremely useful in my life. In my old USAF days we had a philosophy that we tried to live to: Don't force it! Get a bigger hammer!
Larry Brandt
S/V High Flight #2109
Pacific Northwest, PDX-based
2002 C-36 mkII SR/FK M35B
I'm with you Larry, it's amazing as you move up the weight range of hammers how better the micrometer seems to work.
Tony
Tony Cullen
s/v Sceptre
1995 C-36 MkII 1449 TR/FK
San Diego, CA. (Chula Vista Marina)
[QUOTE=LCBrandt;12020]Don't force it! Get a bigger hammer![/QUOTE]
LOL, Larry!
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
Was at the boat yesterday and thought of this thread. Sure enough I have some tiny cracks in the weld where the side plates join to the forestay tang. I inked the tang up and there is no cracking in the tang itself so I think I am okay for now.
If replacing, I think I would get a new forestay chainplate made up without the inadequate anchor rollers welded to it, and then put a proper roller beside it on one side.
Jason V
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Jason,
Small cracks in the weld did not concern me, either, because the load is on the beefy tang in tension. BUT, at some point not too long ago the tang itself started cracking.
I would just check it every month or so.
My rig has a really beefy separate bow roller to starboard for the primary anchor and a less beefy roller to port for the secondary anchor. The stem fitting was a stand-alone piece.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
As I noted in my prior post, I have the small cracks in the weld, too. I don't think they're a problem, but I'm having someone look at them; 2nd set of informed eyes never hurts.
Gary and Cathy Price
1997 C36 Mk II Tall Rig/Wing Keel Imagine...
Hull # 1617
Worton Creek, Md.
Northern Chesapeake Bay
Status Update:
The replacement part arrived from Garhauer just several business days after they received my old part for a reference; great service!. I had a brief phone call from the machinist (I assume) before they started work. He mentioned that they haven't made the fitting to the same geometry as mine from 1999 for quite a while.
The part looks very good, pics attached, but the holes in the horizontal strap are not quite lining up. I am glad the 5 holes that do the work are all perfect. I would like to say that the job is done, but my helper grabbed one of the old screws out of the bucket instead of the new ones I brought (my fault for leaving the old ones there) and just as we were finishing the hardest bolt to reach, the hex head sheared mostly off.
I have never seen this failure before. It did not torque off at the threads; a small part of the hex is still there and until I resolve that I cannot get the bolt in or out. My plan for tomorrow is to cut the hex off with a Dremel wheel and carry on.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
Duane, they didn't put the gusset in that holds the mysterious pin? I would have thought that piece added a lot of strength to the part. Was there a reason they left that out? Certainly this one is a lot beefier maybe they felt it didn't need any support there?
The force should be in line with the tang, which is now 3/8 thick with no discontinuties to concentrate stress, compared to the old design which was 1/4 thick and had stress risers.
I (and apparently they) don't see the need for the gussets which didn't add much and, in fact, created the problem. I am getting ready to attempt completion in a short while.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
Success - Finally!
I got the rest of the bolts secured and then tried to put the forestay/furler back in place. It turns out that no matter how much you loosen the backstay and despite tensioning the masthead forward with the spare Genoa halyard, you cannot make the toggle reach the stem head fitting.
So, I had to consult the manual for the Schaeffer 2100 furler, where I learned what to do to access the turnbuckle for the forestay. It is not so easy with the sail wrapped tightly around the furling foils, so I had to partially unfurl the sail by turning the furler by hand (like making a giant anaconda roll over multiple times). Then I was able to remove multiple fasteners and get to the turnbuckle. With that loose, getting the toggle back on the stem fitting was easy and then the project was all but over.
Details will be in a tech article that Association Members will be able to access.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
Duane,
That is a VERY nice piece of SS!! Garhauer really does good work.
Tom Sokoloski
C36/375IA Past Commodore
Noank, CT
So, to open up an old wound. We're out on the boat for the summer and this week when I was scrubbing the foredeck I happened to check our stem head fitting and lo if we don't have a crack opening up between the gusset and the tang on the port side. I know this is a new crack because I checked that part very carefully in the spring as a result of this thread.
So my feeling from re-reading this thread is that most feel the gussets add little strength to the fitting and the crack in the weld is not significant? I want to get some other SS work done on the boat in the fall and if I can get a welder to the boat will likely get it welded anyway, but in the meantime just wondering what people's thoughts are on this problem and for those who also have this crack has it progressed any, are you going to fix it, etc.
I checked mine last winter after reading this thread and found the same crack between the gusset and tang. The marina owner had someone come in and take a look at it and gave me a quote of about $300 to weld it, without removing it from the boat. So, I went ahead and had it done. I'm not sure it was necessary, it really looks to me like the gusset would add little strength but, then again, I didn't design the piece so who's to say.
Gary and Cathy Price
1997 C36 Mk II Tall Rig/Wing Keel Imagine...
Hull # 1617
Worton Creek, Md.
Northern Chesapeake Bay
When I had Garhauer fabricate a new stemhead fitting for me this winter, they said the new design eliminates the gusset since it didn't add any strength to the piece. As a mechanical engineer, I agree.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/