I am attaching two pictures and am hoping to get some advice on them. One is of the exhaust hump hose, and the other is of the exhaust anti-siphon hose where it connects to the exhaust riser.
My first question has to do with the hump hose picture (the one with the loose hose clamp that broke and fell down from the top part of the hump hose connection). Is it possible to replace the hump hose without loosening or removing the exhaust riser? If so, what is the best way to do it? (I'm really nervous about damaging my exhaust riser as it is rusting where it connects to the engine). Conversely, do I run any risk if I leave the old hose in place and just replace the hose clamps on the existing hump hose? I don't see any holes in it or any signs that it is falling apart.
My second question has to do with the picture of the anti-siphon hose where it connects to the exhaust riser. If you look closely the spiral metal wire is starting to pop through the top of the hose. Is this a possible additional source of my exhaust leak, or does only water go through that hose? And finally, does anyone have any pointers on how to replace these hoses? I notice that one hooks up to an anti-siphon valve inside the cockpit lazarette. Is it a job that requires that I attach the new anti-siphon hose to the previous hose and pull it through, or can I just pull it/them out, measure them, and install new ones. The only reason why I ask this is because there is a small segment of the hoses I can't see, and I am therefore not sure of any obstacles in that location that might be in the way.
Thanks a bunch in advance for any advice--Joel S.
Joel Schwartz
s/v Get-A-Grip
1993 Catalina 36 Hull #1259
Newport Beach, California
UPDATE: I found a program that would allow me to resize pictures. Thanks for the tip baysailor2000, but as it turns out, I found one that works already on my computer. But I downloaded your suggestion anyway, just in case...thanks--JS
Sorry, the system won't let me post my pictures. It says they are too big. Anybody know if there a way to decrease their file size so I can post them in this thread? Thanks--JS
Joel Schwartz
s/v Get-A-Grip
1993 Catalina 36 Hull #1259
Newport Beach, California
Here is a free software that I use to to edit images. It is free.
[url]http://www.gimp.org/downloads/[/url]
I pulled out the hoses and measured them and replaced them.
If the riser is rusted enough that it may break when you work on it - then it is time that it is repaired too.
Haro Bayandorian, 1999 C36 MKII, Sail La Vie #1787, M35B,
Coyote Point, San Mateo, CA.
Haro, are you saying (A) that the exhaust riser needs to be removed to put a new hump hose on (I'm assuming that is why you are saying it may be damaged in the process, no?) and (B) that the anti-siphon hoses can be pulled and measured without any worry about having to attach and pull the new hoses through using the previous hoses?
...also, in regards to (A), is it possible to remove the previous hump hose, and hook up the new hump hose, without loosening or freeing the exhaust riser?
Thanks--Joel S.
Joel Schwartz
s/v Get-A-Grip
1993 Catalina 36 Hull #1259
Newport Beach, California
I was saying that - if the riser appears to be so rusted that may break if you disconnect the hose - then it is time to repair that now. Here is your comment regarding the the damage - ([B]I'm really nervous about damaging my exhaust riser as it is rusting where it connects to the engine)[/B]
And - yes - you can remove the hoses to the siphon break and you can insert new ones later with no problem. You will have to remove the cover that covers the fuel tank that is just behind the engine in aft birth.
Haro Bayandorian, 1999 C36 MKII, Sail La Vie #1787, M35B,
Coyote Point, San Mateo, CA.
My worry is backing out the bolts where it is rusting so I can lift up the entire exhaust riser to insert the hump hose on the other end. But it sounds like you are saying that the hump hose can be bent on without detaching the exhaust riser at the engine. Is that correct?
Also, I edited original to add a picture of the rust I was talking about where the exhaust riser connects to the engine. The rust doesn't seem widespread, otherwise I would imagine a rust color would have permeated the heat wrap... but there is significant rust right where it attaches to the engine.
Joel Schwartz
s/v Get-A-Grip
1993 Catalina 36 Hull #1259
Newport Beach, California
I repaired my riser and replaced the OEM exhaust hose with a silicone hump hose. My engine is an M35A, not sure what yours is. But in my case, there's no way I would have been able to change just the hump hose, without removing the riser. I had to cut off the old hose as it had 'welded' itself to both the riser and the muffler.
My riser was leaking from a very, very small crack in the weld where the cooling water hose meets the main riser pipe. I had that welded, and reinstalled the riser. Getting the bolts off the exhaust flange turned out to be a piece of cake, they were actually pretty loose. Note that you should drain the antifreeze before removing the exhaust flange (don't ask me how I know..)
Even with the more flexible silicone hump hose, I don't believe I'd have ever gotten it on with the riser all ready in place. Maybe others have had a different experience. If I were you, I'd remove the riser, inspect it well, and if it's at all suspect, replace it. Catalina Direct has all the parts and gaskets, and others have had risers made elsewhere. Search the forum and you'll get some good hits.
Gary and Cathy Price
1997 C36 Mk II Tall Rig/Wing Keel Imagine...
Hull # 1617
Worton Creek, Md.
Northern Chesapeake Bay
Yes a hump hose can be put on with out removing the riser. It was no fun..... as others have said if you suspect there are issues fix them. If you are hauled out for the winter now is a good time for PB Blaster and every few days start spraying the riser bolts. You do not want to break them off... Hoses as many will testify are or can be a major thread to a good trip.
Ross & Joanne
Wavelength
Saint John NB
RKYC
C36 #658 TR 1987
Joel, that is not a hump hose, hump hose is BLUE. What you have is rigid wire reinforced black hose between the riser and the muffler. The reason hump hose was invented was to replace that stiff black hose which causes vibration and wear at the inlet port of the muffler. Yes, if you cut the hump hose properly, you should be able to fit it onto the riser and the muffler with a little wiggling.
What you really need to do is to start using PB Blaster on the flange and riser NUTS at the back of the engine, so that you can eventually remove the riser from the flange and studs. I suggest you start doing the three nuts on the studs (two on top one on the bottom) with liberal blasts of PBB on a regular basis (at least weekly) right away. It might take a few months before you're able to get them off without damage. When using PBB, place a heavy duty cover over the bell housing and transmission. You do not want to get any PBB near the seals.
If it was my boat, I'd cut back some of the insulation at the flange and find out what's going on back there. Your caution is well taken. You could slap some liquid weld on it to cover the rust after you clean it up. Muffler patch paste would also work.
Good luck.
Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)
Excellent comments, every last one. Can't tell you how much confidence it gives me to proceed with my own hands after hearing from you guys!
Joel Schwartz
s/v Get-A-Grip
1993 Catalina 36 Hull #1259
Newport Beach, California
For plaineolde,
You said do drain the antifreeze before removing exhaust flange from my M35AC, adding the very pregnant phrase "don't ask me how I know this". Assuming this meant that those antifreeze drips I was seeing at the exhaust flange would turn into a gusher if I managed to unfreeze the flange from the engine, I decided to tighten the flange bolts down and consult my manual to find out where to drain the antifreeze. As far as I can tell, my heat exchanger has no petcock valve as was suggested by the manual as one of the ways to drain the antifreeze (my manual is a manual with single drawings that are supposed to be representative of multiple engines...in this case the drawing was definitely not representative of mine). The other thing the manual suggested was to drain the antifreeze from an engine block bolt, and from the picture of that bolt, a rather big bolt, it appeared to be on the forward port side of the engine, a little bit lower and just behind the oil filter. I put a cup under that bolt and began to loosen it. As I reached the end if the thread oil began to poor into the cup...wrong bolt! I then took some time to figure out what I had just done. Turns out, that bolt has a spring behind it and functions as some sort of oil pressure valve. Thank goodness that bolt didn't come all the way out! At this point I ran out of time and had to go home.
I thought about taking my galley drawer assembly out and draining the antifreeze there, but I have already pulled that assembly out too many times, and bow the screws just barely hold that thing in there. So I did an Internet search and found a discussion referencing the drain being on the complete opposite side of the engine by the forward engine mount. So I am going to try to find the real drain bolt upon my return to the boat.
So why am I telling you all this? I thought it the better part of prudence to ask you if I understood your comment correctly, namely if I break that exhaust flange free without first draining the antifreeze, it will all come draining out and down my engine block, heat exchanger, transmission, and then on into the engine compartment, and probably on into the bilge (flooding whole towns and villages down below). Is my nightmarish understanding of your comment a correct interpretation of what you were trying to tell me? Or did my novice mind on almost everything relating to my boat get the better of me yet again? I say yet again, because I'm still at that stage where my mind usually makes a maintenance task far bigger and potentially disastrous than it turns out to be. Looking forward to the day when most of my unfounded fears of working on the boat become a matter of simple routine!
Joel Schwartz
s/v Get-A-Grip
1993 Catalina 36 Hull #1259
Newport Beach, California
I just replied to the email you sent me. More or less as follows.
Yes, when I removed the exhaust flange, a large quantity of coolant came out. This should have been obvious to me, since the radiator filler cap is at the other end, and when you look in, there's coolant...!!! so duh...:rolleyes: The coolant made a mess, but didn't get into the engine or anything else damaging.
I have never been able to find any sort of coolant drain on the block, despite one being indicated in the manual. So the only way I know of to drain it, is via the water heater hoses. This doesn't seem like the best solution to me, since those hoses connect to the engine at the highest point, rather than the lowest. Maybe others have a better solution?
Removing the drawer cabinet is indeed a PITA, and I may consider cutting an access hole in the side next time I have it out.
Gary and Cathy Price
1997 C36 Mk II Tall Rig/Wing Keel Imagine...
Hull # 1617
Worton Creek, Md.
Northern Chesapeake Bay
Thanks Plaineolde,
I think I may have discovered where the block drainbolt is via Internet search. If I am able to confirm that it is where I think it is, I'll take a picture of it and post it in a new thread.
Joel Schwartz
s/v Get-A-Grip
1993 Catalina 36 Hull #1259
Newport Beach, California
When I pulled the exhaust hose to replace the exhaust lifter I pumped the antifreeze out of the engine thru the filler hole ,it worked for me no spilled antifreeze
Bill Miller
S/V Lorraine
Pacific Northwest,Sound Sound
Grapeview,Wa
1990 Mk1
Picture is blury but the block drain is on the starboard side close to forward motor mount. A wet / dry vacuum works well to catch draining fluid as you'll never get a container large enough in that area to catch it
Gary Smith
93 MK I, Hull #1231
Std rig; wing keel
M35A Oberdorfer conversion
Hey Gsmith, that was what was suggested on a thread on a different forum, and that is where I planned to check next. Did you happen to notice if you have an antifreeze petcock drain under your heat exchanger at the back of the engine? I couldn't find one on mine, but the manual says it should be there. Also, it appears that both antifreeze and raw water are cooled in the same heat exchanger in what appears to be separate compartments. Is my understanding correct on this? And finally, eexcellent suggestion on how to use my shop vac to suck out antifreeze at the drain on the block!
Joel Schwartz
s/v Get-A-Grip
1993 Catalina 36 Hull #1259
Newport Beach, California
Hey William, I would imagine your method also has the advantage of having less bleed problems when the job is done when you refill with antifreeze. Of course if the antifreeze is old, it makes sense to drain the entire system, but mine is only a few months old. So I may just go your route.
Joel Schwartz
s/v Get-A-Grip
1993 Catalina 36 Hull #1259
Newport Beach, California
Joel, your engine is a little different, but this is what I do:
Engine Overheating 101 - How to Burp Your Engine (Reply #6) [url]http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4518.msg26462.html#msg26462[/url]
You have to remove the coolant first. I would suggest that petcocks are the worst way to do it. There's little clearance and they are small openings that can get blocked up. I said this earlier, and one skipper replied that he'd used a hose on the end of the petcock.
Your boat, your choice.
Stu Jackson, C34IA Secretary, C34 #224, 1986, SR/FK, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)
Thanks Stu. Who knew that there would be so many ways to drain antifreeze...certainly not me! I'll evaluate your method when I get back to the boat. If I have a similarly easy to drain setup, yours certainly seems the easiest, most straight forward way to go.
Thanks for your input, sir!
Joel Schwartz
s/v Get-A-Grip
1993 Catalina 36 Hull #1259
Newport Beach, California