John,

My two cents only, buy a gas electrical generator to keep your batteries topped off.

Also, look at the consumption side of the equation, LED lights draw so little power compared to the incandescent type bulbs we have on board. It's really worth a look at converting to LED's.

If you were doing long distance cruising for months at a time in some far off port of call, solar or wind generator might be the way to go but for a few weeks at a time, it seems a generator would serve you very well. A generator has added benefits, like running a hair drier for the Admiral, and with the right unit, you can make hot water which is always nice to have available.

Good luck with your trip planning.

Bill Matley

John,
I kind of agree with Bill, but the other question I have to ask is what battery charger do you have? If you have only a 20A charger, then it would take many hours of running a generator to bring the batteries back. If on the other hand you have something in the 50-100A range, (which your house bank could handle), a genset (Honda 2k?) is very cost effective. They sip fuel, are very quiet, and avoids the wear and tear on your $10-15k main engine. Another alternative is to get an external regulator for your stock alternator. Rather than the charge tapering off very quickly with the OEM internal regulator, you could more quickly and more efficiently charge your batteries when you are running the engine.

A gas generator, in my opinion, should be the very last thing to consider.

The alternator / regulator upgrade would ONLY be "necessary" if your old alternator was questionable. I only did ours after our OEM became over 20 years old. The internal regulator on your existing alternator will work to charge your battery bank quite well between the "cruisers bookends" of 50% to 85% SOC which is fine for your cruise, and until you get to plug back in again. The advanced regulators help immensely in getting that last 15% of charge back in compared to the tapering chargers on the OEM internal regulator based on battery acceptance.

Solar is your best bet and you have it already. Use it. Figure out some temporary arrangements and eventually it'll come to you what's the best for you for attachment and angling toward the sun. I'd start with them on the deck in front of the dodger.

A genset will set you back $860, best price for the Honda eU1000 I've heard of in the past year. And it won't heat your hot water, only a 2000 watt Honda will do that. Tom's point about your charger size is a very good one. Why spend the $$?

And even if you didn't have the solar, with your healthy 400 AH house bank, quite frankly you don't need to do a thing except make sure your bank is topped up before you leave!!! Heresy, I know, but it's true. I've done it, without solar and without (before) the alternator regulator upgrade!

How can this be?!?!!! :eek:

Do your energy budget. If you're in the Delta, you're motoring most every day. You have two days easy to hang on the hook before you need to start charging, and more if you turn your fridge off at night, which we did on our Delta trip. If you're going down the coast, Half Moon Bay has power, as does Monterey. Drake's Bay doesn't, but Bodega Bay does.

ONLY if you're planning on being off the grid for more than three days without running your engine and without other sources of charging do you need to do anything more.

You also have a Link 20, which I hope is working better for your these days.

We did the Delta in 2004 with our old OEM 55A Motorola. I wrote this about that trip:

From a bit I wrote about our 2004 cruise (10 days):

[I]Helpful Hints: Electrical Systems: For extended cruises for those with OEM stock alternators and no external regulation, there is inherently a steadily diminishing law of return in battery charging even if you motor a lot everyday. If you do an energy budget, even if you motor for eight hours a day, you will be drawing down your batteries, regardless of how much you’ve increased your house bank. You WILL need to stop and plug in every week or so. Do the math. If you really want to stay out “forever,” add solar and a new high(er) output alternator and smart regulator. We minimized use of electric lights with our lamp oil trawler cabin light and lamp oil anchor light hooked onto our Garhauer dinghy davit, but most of the energy use is from the fridge. With our large 315 amp hour house battery bank and a separate start battery, we were very comfortable being out in two different situations. The first was for a few days without motoring or plugging in. We turned off the fridge at night, so we only used 30 to 40 amp hours a day and could go three or four days without running the engine. The second was knowing we’d be motoring for at least five hours or plugging in at a marina once a week (even for a few hours with a good charger, or overnight). So, before you go, make sure your electrical system is up to snuff, and that YOU understand it, so you can really relax and enjoy the peace and quiet without having to worry about your boat systems.[/I]

A good test of my heresy would be to take a couple of days and go out to Clipper Cove and see how the math on power works. And give you some confidence.

Heck, your batteries won't know if it's Clipper Cove or the Delta or out on the ocean. The math's the same.

Heck, for that matter, you could do it at your slip! Just unplug and turn on your fridge.:)

The only thing you need is a controller for your solar panel. I'll dig up some info from a friend of mine for you.

This could be a mini-book, but just a few quick opinions/thoughts:

1. If you are serious about being energy independent while away from a dock, the investment in solar is well worth it. We have four 110W panels with two controllers and went 100 days last year in the Keys and Bahamas without ever plugging in (and we do not carry a generator), and we only ran the engine once at anchor to charge and that was precautionary, not necessary.

2. A bigger alaternator with smart external regulator is also very helpful, but going too big will cause problems with the sheaves and belts. Best is to keep it to a modest 80A or so.

3. Having an accurate battery monitor that you trust is important.

4. Solar panels typically have an output voltage over 16V, so a controller is very important to protect your batteries if your panel wattage is anything significant. A small trickle charge solar panel can often be connected without a controller, but that's not what you are talking about.

5. Mounting the solar panels is always a compromise. Our PO started with two panels on their own framework above our Bimini. I added more framework to install the other two panels. It would look very strange with the full-length Bimini off, but we never do that except when a major storm is coming. Our arrangement is all aft of the boom so we have very little chances for shadow over the panels.

6. My wife can easily run a hair dryer and even our microwave off our 1800W inverter. We have two 160Ah 4D gel cells.

7. The only thing we miss about being on the hook in one spot (i.e. not motoring anywhere) is the hot water. So far, we have been fine with a solar shower bag, but some days it is not warm enough.

John,

I completely agree that the first thing you need to do is determine how you will REALLY USE your boat. Then make decisions based upon that. If I were you, I would not spend all the money to gear up the boat to be energy independent for long cruises because you don't plan to do long cruises.

Reducing your energy usage with LED anchor and reading lights is a good start. Making sure you refrigerator insulation is good is also very helpful. You may very well be happy with the recharging you get from a larger alternator and the motoring or motorsailing you need to do.

Good luck!

John,
You are correct in your calculations, and if you only are looking at two or three nights, it's hard to justify the cost of about $15 per lamp to change to LED. On the other hand, if you amortize the cost, fuel, and engine use over several years and many nights on the hook, the LEDs make more sense. LEDs use typically 10-20% of the amps that incandescents do.

John,

Our LED anchor light and reading lights use 0.1 A each. I typically have an anchor light on for much more than 6 hours, but using your example, the LED lights would use approximately 2 Amp-hours.

Our former anchor light used 1.1 Amps and we typically burn it for 10 hours, so we went from 11 Ah to only 1 Ah, saving 10Ah. That is 10% of our typical daily usage, so we consider it very significant.

The other advantage to LED reading lights vs the typical halogen is the reduced heat. Those halogen bulbs get very hot and in the warmer months it is very uncomfortable to sit with that just inches from my head.

For an anchor light we use solar powered LED garden lights that you can get at HD or anywhere. Zero amp draw. They stand up to the weather just fine, loss over the side has proven to be the biggest risk in using them. I hang them by a halyard about 8' above deck, while putting on/taking off I have managed to drop one and naturally it bounced over the side. Luckily, they are cheap and we carry a spare now.

I subscribe to the theory that another vessel is more likely to see that lower light than the one at the top of the mast which is often mistaken for just another star. They are surprisingly bright and that is the biggest negative, lighting up the forepeak of the boat through the forward hatch. I like dark at night.

I hesitated to comment on this, but I also question how visible these other devices are at 360 visibility. I see two major concerns: 1. am I visible enough to reduce risk of collision? 2. will it pass muster with the often ticket-happy marine law enforcement?

I also agree that the masthead light on a sailboat is NOT necessarily the best way to be visible to boats maneuvering close to you in the dark. The light is so high that up close it isn't easy to see sometimes.

Bloody too right you'd be liable!
COLREGs require 2 mile visability MINIMUM visability.
Commercial nav lights are certified to meet COLREGs requirements with specified bulbs/LEDs.
We use a couple of solar garden LEDs on Tara, but not as nav lights!
A round one sits on the sternrail in port, to mark our stern for night returnees.
The other is a Star stuck in the mainsail cover, forward of the mast for evening decoration.
But never in place of COLREGs nav lighting!

[CENTER][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=4]Rule 30[/SIZE][/FONT][/CENTER]
[CENTER][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=3]Anchored Vessels and Vessels Aground[/SIZE][/FONT][/CENTER]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=2](a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:[/SIZE][/FONT][INDENT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=2](i) in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=2](ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[/INDENT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=2](b) A vessel of less than 50 meters in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.[/SIZE][/FONT]

Where it can best be seen is down low, not at the top of the mast. How many people drive their boat looking up in the sky?

Given that 40% of the boats in most anchorages don't even show a light, I'm not too worried about it. Regardless, this light is far brighter than the masthead light on most boats, it completely illuminates the whole bow of the boat. We had a legal and approved Davis Mega-Light on our last boat, it was a dim orange at best and if it could be seen for two miles I'd be surprised, certainly nowhere near as bright as the LED solar light is.

Our masthead light is conveniently obstructed on one side by a TV antenna that was poorly added on at some point in time in the boat's past. That hides the light for about 60 degrees and it's going to have to be changed. For one not to see my solar light, you would have to approach exactly from the stern or exactly from the bow since it can only be obscured by the mast or the furled headsail. And if the boat swings in the wind at all, it will be seen. I've approached it from the rear in the dark and you can clearly see the glow of the light on either side of the mast.

If I anchor in an area that is not a recognized anchorage, I will use the masthead light as well, but in an anchorage, the solar light is far more effective. I was told about this by other sailors who have been using them for years, it's kind of standard up here to see them and most people I talk to agree they are more effective than a masthead light, despite the possible obstructions.

I see boats pulling wakeboarders among anchored vessels and law enforcement agencies do nothing about that. I haven't seen a cop or anything similar to a cop on the water after dark, ever. How many people, when motorsailing, display the required dayshape? Or the ball when anchored? I've yet to see one.

I suppose when we stroll south, given the propensity for LEOs down there to hammer the public at every opportunity, I'll use the masthead light as well. But up here, I'll use the solar one, like most other folks do, and sleep well.

This thread has been seriously hijacked and I apologize for my part in that.

FWIW, we use a lamp oil fired anchor light hung on our backstay and don't use our anchor light at the top of the mast although it is a lower draw Davis mega-light. There's NO traffic at night in the Delta, none, zero, zip, zilch. Been doing this for 30 years.

You already have the solar panels, a good basic alternator, and a good charger. The solar lights for anchoring will be just fine. The few hours of using the old cabin lights down below won't make much difference, just don't keep lights on in cabins that aren't occupied. We still have our halogen lights down below, plus a neat trawler oil fired lamp over the saloon table - great ambiance.

With your energy budget and your big house bank, you should be able to sit at anchor for two nights with your 100 ah per day draw.

Remember, you're gonna be motoring most of the time in the Delta anyway.

And, your fallback is to simply run the engine an hour a day if you don't trust your Link 20. Your best bet would be to replace that troublesome Link with a Victron.

If it was my boat, I'd buy a solar light or two, a Victron and just go.

Remember, our 2004 Delta trip was done without our Link 2000, 3 130 ah house bank and the old OEM alternator, and we had NO problems. While we turned our fridge off at night, we could have let it run 24/7, since it gets cool at night up there.

I suggest you give what you have a try with these recommendations.

PS - our solar sunshower came in very handy.

[QUOTE=bstreet;3745] We had a legal and approved Davis Mega-Light on our last boat, it was a dim orange at best and if it could be seen for two miles I'd be surprised, certainly nowhere near as bright as the LED solar light is.

[/QUOTE]

To my recollection the Davis Mega-Light has never been USCG or ABYC A-16 approved and I don't remeber them ever making that claim.

Back on topic, the OP could certainly do without a generator. The biggest battery charger you can safely power with a Honda 2k is about 50-55 amps, especially with AGM batts, as they are only 1600 watts continuous and a 50-55 amp charger will be drawing darn close to the max of that generator.

You can easily run an 80-90 amp alternator on that motor which would give you almost double the charging speed of a Honda. Remember AGM's can take nearly all you can give them in terms of current, and more, so a smart regulator with temp sensing is not a bad idea to protect the alternator from over heating. You can also keep your dumb regulated alt but you will charge slower and may eventually burn it up with AGM batts due to their higher acceptance rates.

Keep in mind that until a regulator, smart or dumb, has reached it's absorption voltage or voltage limit of say 14.4 volts and is still in "bulk" it is "full fielding" the alternator meaning it is going to be putting out the most it can or the most the batteries can accept. The switch is on full power in bulk mode.

Bulk is the range between 0% and roughly 80% state of charge. Without any sort of temperature compensation a dumb regulated alt may be asked to run at wide open for a long time, especially if small compared to the bank, before the bank comes up to 14.4 or the chosen absorption voltage and the bank begins to cut back it's acceptance. This has killed many an internally regulated alternator. Food for thought.

Really. They do say this:
>>>>>>>>>
Mega-Light Masthead consumes just 0.110 amps (approximately 1/10th amp). It features a light sensor that automatically switches on at dusk and off at dawn. The dual-function Fresnel lens projects light for up to two nautical miles (3.7km).
<<<<<<<<<

My bad for confusing a manufacturer's statement implying that their product complies with a safety standard with an actual approval. I'll take 50 lashes with a page from the book on pedantry in penance. Totally moot to me now though since I no longer have that light or the boat it was on.

Bud,

This not fuel to any fire, just a comment.

Whenever a supplier/manufacturer uses the phrase "up to" I get really suspicious. That implies to me that just maybe under perfect conditions the device will perform somewhere near that level. Under most circumstances, it will not even come close.

[QUOTE=bstreet;7461]Really. They do say this:
>>>>>>>>>
Mega-Light Masthead consumes just 0.110 amps (approximately 1/10th amp). It features a light sensor that automatically switches on at dusk and off at dawn. The dual-function Fresnel lens projects light for up to two nautical miles (3.7km).
<<<<<<<<<

My bad for confusing a manufacturer's statement implying that their product complies with a safety standard with an actual approval. I'll take 50 lashes with a page from the book on pedantry in penance. Totally moot to me now though since I no longer have that light or the boat it was on.[/QUOTE]

No need for taking the lashes..:D

I only point this out because many manufactures have become quite misleading in their verbiage around their products. Dr. LED is perhaps the most egregiously misleading.

I just don't want folks to think they have paid for a USCG approved all round light when they have in-fact not done so. They would not be the first or last misleading manufacturer.

It's like battery charger manufacturers selling a "30 amp charger" that is really 15A & 15A and there is no way to make it a 30A cause all it will do is 15A & 15A even if one battery is already full.

I can't even count the number of times I have heard; [I][B]"I think my charger is broken it won't put out more than 10 amps and it is a 20 amp charger?"[/B][/I]

No you have a 10 amp charger per bank with two separate 10 amp outputs. if you want to consider that a 20A charger well....:mad:

OK, now that this thread has got this far, I am going to add something that will further confuse. It is only terminology, but...

References in the previous postings to a "masthead light" were intended - it's my impression from the context, anyway - to describe the all-around white light at the top of the mast. I call that an "anchor light". But a "masthead light" in COLREGS is actually what I call a "steaming light". A masthead light is by definition limited to a viewing angle of 112.5 degrees either side of the bow, and would only be lit when underway under power...therefore, whatever its current drain is, its load on the batteries would be irrelevant.

Larry is quite right. The other thing is that I could not find in the COLREGS where it specifies that an "anchor" light has to be anything more than white, all-round, and located where best seen.

They specifcally mention the viewing distances for various light types for various vessel sizes, but not the anchor light.

On the other hand, all the USCG-related references I have seen talk about the anchor light being visible for 2 miles, minimum. Given that the COLREGS are not created by the USCG, perhaps the USCG added that 2 miles requirement for products approved in the USA.

I wish I knew more, but that's all the time I have for now.