This is a call for understanding and advice. I don't understand what's happening or how to fix it.
What's Happening
My cabin sole is developing cracks. The following photos are from locations 1 and 2.
Photo 1. This is a top down view at Location 1. I purchased Hiatus 4 years ago. Then, this crack was limited to the recessed lip for the bilge board cover. It was unopened. The crack has developed up the vertical wall of the settee. The crack opens when Hiatus is on the hard, as she is in this photo. It closes when she is afloat.
Photo 2. This photo is from the same location, and shows a newly developed crack at the top of the settee. I first noticed this during last fall's decommissioning.
Photo 3. This photo is a top down look at Location 2, behind the mast. I first noticed the cracks during last season's sailing season. The large crack opened up when Hiatus went on the hard.
Photo 4. This is a top down view at Location 2, but in front of the mast. I first noticed this crack during fall decommissioning.
Photo 5. This is a photo of the floor under the settee at Location 1. I searched for damage below the cabin sole, as far as I could see with eyes and iPhone. This is all I found. I won't say my search was exhaustive.
Additional Background. We've put a lot of miles on Hiatus in 4 years. A semi-trailer trip from Wisconsin to Florida. A winter in the Bahamas. A return cruise to Wisconsin along the Great Loop. Summer cruises in the North Channel. I recall three bumps or groundings. A soft grounding on Bahamian sands that a lifting tide cured. A sharp bump and over on a granite boulder in the North Channel. A thud, probably against a submerged log, along the Trent Severn. None left any marks on the keel. I first noticed the original crack (Photo 1) growing and opening when Hiatus wintered on sandy soil in a North Carolina yard 2 winters ago.
Can anyone help?
Dan Cross
sv Hiatus
Sailing from Menominee, MI
1995 C36 MKII TR/SK M-35A(C)
If I had to guess, I would check the standing rigging. They may be too tight.
Sail La Vie 1999 Catalina 36 MKII, M35B-17031, Coyote Point, San Mateo, CA
About Sail La Vie
I would recommend have a surveyor come out and look at the damage. He might offer a cause and remedy. If Haro is corect, check the chain plates and their anchors.
Lou Bruska
Sojourn
1985 C-36 Mk-I TR #495
Eldean Shipyard
Lake Macatawa (Holland, MI) Lake Michigan
Rallyback@comcast.net
Have you tried adjusting the pressure exerted on the hull by loosening/tightening the jack stands and seeing if that makes a difference in the crack size?
Paul & Wendy Keyser
"First Light"
Rye NH
2005 C36 MKII #2257
Wing, M35B
Gentlemen,
Thanks for your comments.
Standing Rigging and Chainplates
I removed my mast and pulled my chainplate assemblies last winter. The assemblies were showing a shade of rust from our travels in salt water and the bulkhead chainplates were leaking a bit. I found no structural damage in the assemblies or their attachments to the hull and hull liner and, as I best I could, I reinstalled the assemblies to the tensions they had at disassembly. It's possible I was off--or far off--the mark there.
I don't suspect that my rigging is over-tensioned. Using a Loos tension gauge, I first tension the wires to their recommendations: 15% of breaking strength for stays and ~10% for shrouds. This leaves minor slackness in the shrouds, which I take up when sailing.
I will say that the number and size of the cracks increased last summer, following my work on the chainplates. Coincidence or cause/effect?
BTW, I used Practical Sailors DIY Formula Using Citric Acid for removing rust and passivating stainless. It worked incredibly well.
Jack Stands
Hiatus slept through her winters on her cradle until I took her to Florida. Since then, she's only had jackstands. I first noticed that the original crack was getting bigger when the boat was on the "hard" on sandy soil in North Carolina. I had been away from the boat for about 6 months and, when I returned, I found myself taking up slack in the stands each of the first few days. I don't remember that tightening the stands closed the crack any. I haven't otherwise experimented with loosening/tightening the stands. But, the cracks widen when she is removed from the water and the water pressure on the hull is removed.
Surveyor
Good call. The original, small crack was noticed by the surveyor when I purchased Hiatus. But, no investigation of its cause was made (or asked for by me).
I have never contacted Catalina to discuss boat issues. Should I be pursuing that avenue for info?
Dan Cross
sv Hiatus
Sailing from Menominee, MI
1995 C36 MKII TR/SK M-35A(C)
There is a block of wood between the butt of the mast and the keel. It rots. Once it does, this sort of damage occurs. I'd check that out. If it were solid, I don't think your standing rigging could force you mast to crack your sole.
David
Mobile, AL
S/V Beach Belle
1983 Catalina 36 Mk I #154
Std. Rig, Fin Keel, M25
The mast step was a condition I had thought of but I have similar crazing cracks on my boat, no where near the magnitude of yours. I'm thinking that you may store the boat with the mast in, would that be correct? I have often thought that a boat on the hard with the mast in would vibrate and move as the wind changes occur. Couple that with incorrect hull support may exacerbate the flexing causing the crazing and in your case cracking.
Gary Bain
S/V "Gone With The Wind"
Catalina 36', Hull #: 1056, Year: 1990, Engine: M-35
Standard Rig
Moored: Boothbay Harbor, Maine
Home: Auburn, Maine
Gentlemen,
Thanks, again, for your comments.
Catalina
I contacted Catalina and they have been helpful. I'm working with Warren Pandy. He's reviewed this post, we've spoken by phone and corresponded. This is a problem of first impression for Warren (and he's been around Catalinas a long time). He's not sure, but suspects a knock to the keel in the past. He plans to work up a fix schedule that should take care of the existing cracks and keep them from spreading. I'll post updates to this thread.
Mast Step
I'll ask Warren about this. I had an early C34 with the wood insert and I know they got rid of that within a few years. Does anyone know whether my 1995 C36 MKII would have a wood block encapsulated in the fiberglass mast step? I'll take a closer look, but I don't recall see any fractures in the mast step (which may be impossible to see in any event).
Mast Up Winter Storage
Yep, Hiatus is normally stored outside with her mast up. And, the Wisconsin winter winds will blow. That's normal. My cracks aren't normal. So, I wouldn't expect the former to lead to the latter. All that sophistry said, I'll ask Warren about this, too.
Again, thanks for the ideas.
Dan Cross
sv Hiatus
Sailing from Menominee, MI
1995 C36 MKII TR/SK M-35A(C)
I've spoken to Warren, and he is very good, but I can promise you that Catalina 36's had wooden blocks to act as support between the mast step and keel.
David
Mobile, AL
S/V Beach Belle
1983 Catalina 36 Mk I #154
Std. Rig, Fin Keel, M25
Hi Folks. Here's an update on the cracks in my cabin sole.
Cause. I still don't know the cause. Warren Pandy's guesses are better than mine, and they are:
He doesn't think rig tension caused the cracks, but hull flexing from the boat moving in and out of the water and from rig tensioning could increase the size of the cracks.
Fix. Warren recommended the following fix:
• Back side
1. Prep (abrade) the surface with a flap wheel on a grinder, Dremel, or by hand with an aggressive (24 grit) sandpaper,
2. lay in 3-4 layers of 2408 glass
• Finish side
1. V out the crack
2. Insert 20 oz. glass strands into cracking using vinylester resin
3. Finish with hand laid gelcoat. Catalina can provide matching gelcoat.
Further Investigating. I cleaned up my bilge and took extensive photos of the condition of the floors (the athwartship supports) under the cabin sole. I found no further evidence of cracking.
No Additional Cracking. I sailed Hiatus through our summer season without doing any repairs. I did not observe any additional cracking or expansion of the existing cracks.
Repairs Made. I glassed in behind the largest crack (see photo 1 of my original post) this fall while Hiatus was in the water. I used epoxy resin and many layers of cloth. I didn't try to use 2408 glass, because I didn't think it could follow the contours. I haven't tried to patch the gelcoat side. Hiatus is now on the hard and the repair looks to be holding. The crack did not spread out when she was placed on the hard. If the patch holds through the winter, I'll work on the other cracks and patch up the gelcoat when she's back in the water next spring.
Dan Cross
sv Hiatus
Sailing from Menominee, MI
1995 C36 MKII TR/SK M-35A(C)
Wow! Dan, that was quite the adventure regarding this issue. Seeing cracks like that certainly got my attention! Glad you seem to have solved it. A couple of points for anyone, like me, who was drawn into your story/predicament....
The wooden block under the mast step mentioned by the captain with the 1983 C36 was right, but that was solved by Catalina in about 1986 when they stopped using the marine plywood piece under there.
Dan, you stated that the problem seemed to become noticeable when you moved from cradle to jackstands and on looser soil underneath to boot, and that it went away in water with the rigging up and reappeared, if not got worse, when hauled out. I made the mistake on our 1991 Mk 1.5 of NOT reinstalling the turnbuckle on the mast under the deck that pulls the cabin roof down. Later I came to understand that this device prevents the shrouds and chainplates from pulling upwards so hard on the hull of the boat that the cabin roof/deck heaves upwards around the mast, literally squeezing the hull out of shape. This demonstrates that the sides of the hull are being squeezed tight when rigged, then eased out like a water-filled balloon might when lifted by it's tied-off end and then placed down on a table when the vessel comes out of the water and is placed on the hard. This phenomenon is reduced when the vessel stays rigged with the mast up, but it's exaggerated when the rigging is relaxed/removed.
A proper cradle with supports positioned at the bulkheads and most of the weight sitting on the keel minimizes the flexing that the hull goes through twice a year if it winters on the hard, along with wind flexing the hull all winter long, but jackstands are going to exacerbate the problem as the position they're placed in moves around and their feet can sink. It sounds as though the several 'blows' that your boat suffered, along with some quite impressive long-distance sailing, initiated the crack, but all that flexing in and out when she was hauled out and then launched and re-tuned allowed it to widen.
I'm glad that the glass work you did has so far held the crack together, but I'd suggest using a suitable cradle for a C36 might help to prevent a recurrence. Best, K.
Kevin Lenard
"Firefly"
'91 C-36 Mk. "1.5" Tall Rig, Fin Keel, Hull #1120, Universal M-35 original (not "A" or "B")
CBYC, Scarborough, Lake Ontario, Canada