Is there anybody out there who has gone through the replacement of the keel on a C36? My main concern is how to control the quality of the repair (by the yacht service company).
This is the story and this normally only happens to others.... In November I requested the marina to put the boat on shore, as I would be traveling till February. As they do so each year, I trusted them while I happily traveled and worked abroad. Only this time, someone must've had a different opinion about proper support for the keel on the trestle frame. The result is a mechanical-failure analyst's dream.... (do click do for horror pics).
I'm not worried about costs - yet - as both insurance surveyors (marina and mine) agree the keel is scrap metal and needs to be replaced. That yacht service can probably repair it, but I want to make sure I have some control over the repair.
A little brain dump on what might go 'well' or 'wrong' in the repair:
The surveyors both agree that the "keel box" will need further reinforcement before new keel is bolted to it, as absence of cracks cannot be confirmed; right.... How much extra glass & resin is enough?
Another... Do they get the keel from Catalina. Or if not... a foundry will have to make one (which mold will they use?)... Does it come with a material and weighing certificate?
How about bolting? Bolt material CS (not!), 316 (less strength), Duplex or Super Duplex? Any particular fastener torque - lubricant? right type! - one needs to apply to these bolts?
Again, just looking for some advise/experience on ensuring it's done rightly. I'm a bit damaged in the 'trust department'.
S/Y 'EASY'
C36 MkII #1739
Monnickendam -The Netherlands
www.taas.it
Thank goodness for insurance. Hopefully the boat yard that created the damage will not be entrusted with the repair. You might want to search the website for other keel related problems. If memory is right, there was a posting last year- somebody wanted to change out the keel (from wing to full?) and the consensus was that that there was a good chance of creating major hull damage trying to remove the existing keel from the hull. I believe Catalina uses not only the keel bolts, put very strong adhesives. Might also try to contact Catalina engineering directly to get a better idea of how easy or difficult it would be to separate keel from hull and ask where you could get a replacement keel?
It almost appears that the yard dropped the boat on the aft end of the keel. That kind of an impact might also mess up engine mounts and prop shaft alignment. What happened to the rudder?
Good luck
Paul & Wendy Keyser
"First Light"
Rye NH
2005 C36 MKII #2257
Wing, M35B
The way the keel was supported, I'm sure that the damage is from static loading and only minor impact damage. The insurance surveyors agree on that. There is no damage to hull from trestle side supports, no other signs of damage. And the boat was poorly supported as you can see on the picture(s).
Indeed I expect additional damage from keel removal to the reinforced area where the keel is attached to the hull (surveyor called it 'keel box').
I sent Catalina a message, but you're right it's probably better to call them (the time zones don't help either...).
S/Y 'EASY'
C36 MkII #1739
Monnickendam -The Netherlands
www.taas.it
My advise is to exhaust all other possibilities of NOT replacing the keel. Looks like they concentrated the weight of the boat on the aft edge of the wing which folded up and simply broke off of the trailing edge. I can't tell if this was casued by inertia or just weight. Grinding away some of the fairing material at the aft end of the keel where it meets the hull and checking for hull stress in this area would be the first step. Then, checking under the sink and galley floor, especially where the hull and stringers are tabbed would be next. Finding nothing, you might then consider the hull and hull/keel joint sound and perhaps concentrate on the best method of replacing the dislocated keel components.
Nick Caballero
Retired C36/375IA Mk II Technical Editor
Thanks, for that answer. I guess they - insurance - allow me to do some investigative work myself. I'll do that.
Pictures were taken before the insurance survey. Your assessment is right, the static load on that aft edge caused it. There is no evidence for 'rough handling' of the trestle with boat on it. The surveyor confirmed damage extends into the root of the keel; where it is attached to the hull. Those GRP cracks require repair.
Interestingly, there is no damage to the hull, which had to carry the weight on two side supports, after the keel cracked.
I just don't know how one can repair the GRP box, where the keel is bolted onto, without removing it. I just don't know how you can repair the lead close to the hull attachment and keep the heat input sufficiently low for the GRP directly above it.
The wing itself can possibly repaired by re-forming it and close the cracks with pre-heating and a low heat input welding process. But there aren't many people around that know how to do it and even in my professional world (petroleum corrosion engineering) nobody I spoke to, knows how to do it.
Another aspect is that an insurance company doesn't just offer "free advice". The repair needs to be properly done to maintain coverage.
S/Y 'EASY'
C36 MkII #1739
Monnickendam -The Netherlands
www.taas.it
I hit a rock with my C 30 and removed a couple of chunks of lead from the keel. I tried to build a form to poor lead into, but never was successful. In studying it, I realized that the lead I lost to the rock was probably only 10 pounds or so. Not much when compared to the 1000's of pounds of lead in the keel, so I elected to repair the damage with epoxy filler and fiberglass roving. It came out looking like new. From the photo's- it looks like you are maybe losing 30-40 pound's of lead (if that)? Still probably not a huge deal when you consider the weight of the keel.
When I crunched my keel- it too overstressed the fiberglass "box" (I think its called a keel stub) in the back of the keel. I dremmeled out the larger cracks and filled with epoxy, then built up about 1/2 of an inch of laminate on the outside of the hull- with lots of glass matting overlaping into the undamaged ares. Completed by fairing it all. Sailed her for many years after with no issues.
I would thoroughly examine the floor stringers to make sure they did not separate from the hull. The C30 had none. If any are separated, they obviously must be repaired also.
My remote amateur opinion for what its worth.
Good luck with it all
Paul & Wendy Keyser
"First Light"
Rye NH
2005 C36 MKII #2257
Wing, M35B
The loss of lead isn't much of a concern. More of a worry is the loss of strength due the cracks, particularly the one close to the hull. A crack has the tendency to grow much quicker than a round defect, especially under stress/load. And the cracks in the GRP, just above the point where the keel is attached to the hull, require repair too...
I'll keep you all posted on where this thing goes. Thanks for your advise and experiences!
S/Y 'EASY'
C36 MkII #1739
Monnickendam -The Netherlands
www.taas.it
Why wouldn't you contact the manufacturer (Catalina) providing the information you supplied here, and ask for their advice/opinions? Everything I've ever read has shown that they are very good at replying to these kind of requests...
---- Howard & Linda Matwick ----
--- S/V "Silhouette" - Nanaimo, BC ----
--- 1999 C36 MkII #1776 M35BC ---
Thanks, I'll probably do that. In fact already wrote them an e-mail and left a voicemail. But I guess the time difference between US and Europe isn't helping communications... ;-)
S/Y 'EASY'
C36 MkII #1739
Monnickendam -The Netherlands
www.taas.it