Every year when I take the boat out of the water I check the rudder to see if it has play and moves smoothly and it always has. It has been tight to the hull with just enough space for its easy movement. I know because an issue I always had was removing barnacles from the space since it was too small to get bottom paint in there.
This year I noticed in the straight position the rudder dropped about an inch or two and you could now see below the hull that much of the rudder's stainless steel shaft that previously wasn't visible. Even more curious is that when I turn the rudder to either side it goes back up again.
Any ideas of what could be wrong? Don't want the rudder dropping on me while I sail or while I attempt to fix it.
Enrique
Talisman
'98 '36 MK2 Hull #1673
On the hard in South Glastonbery, CT
Enrique
Talisman
1998 36 MK2 Hull #1673
Tall Rig Wing Keel
M35BC engine
Old Saybrook, CT Summer
South Glastonbury, CT Winter
I would start looking under cover that is on the deck. The rudder hangs from a 1/2" bolt and it rotates on a ring. This ring may be broken or worn out. 1" play is too much. I would be curious what you find.
Haro Bayandorian, 1999 C36 MKII, Sail La Vie #1787, M35B,
Coyote Point, San Mateo, CA.
You should also look behind the rectangular access cover on the bulkhead in the aft cabin. You will see the rudder post and the attached steering quadrant.
I, too, am very interested in what you find.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
The ring that holds the rudder post to the bearing housing under the cockpit floor is glassed in to the bottom of the housing. This glassing in failed completely and the rudder fell until the steering quadrant held it about 1.5 inches.
Spoke to Catalina. Supposedly Gerry Douglas has to figure out the fix.
Anyone else experience this or am I the only lucky one
Enrique
Enrique
Talisman
1998 36 MK2 Hull #1673
Tall Rig Wing Keel
M35BC engine
Old Saybrook, CT Summer
South Glastonbury, CT Winter
I believe I attached a picture of it
Enrique
Talisman
1998 36 MK2 Hull #1673
Tall Rig Wing Keel
M35BC engine
Old Saybrook, CT Summer
South Glastonbury, CT Winter
Holy crap! You mean at this point just the friction of the steering quadrant is all that is preventing the rudder from falling off? If so, we should all be crawling back in the lazarette and taking a look at glasswork for the top bearing.
Nick Caballero
Retired C36/375IA Mk II Technical Editor
Too bad, Enrique. At least you got Gerry involved and I surely hope and expect that he'll do his best to figure out a good repair.
Best of luck to you and thanks for sharing your problem with us.
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
Yes you should look specialy northerners that have their boat out of the water part of the year. I've been told the rudder is highly buoyant. It weighs 150 lbs but single digits in the water.
I don't understand why this isn't bolted in with a metal plate like the backing of wenches?
Enrique
Talisman
1998 36 MK2 Hull #1673
Tall Rig Wing Keel
M35BC engine
Old Saybrook, CT Summer
South Glastonbury, CT Winter
[QUOTE=Chachere;20266]Some of us have never had the fortune of having the backing of wenches....[/QUOTE]
Glad you went where I had declined to go. :D
Duane Ising - Past Commodore (2011-2012)
s/v Diva Di
1999 Catalina 36 Hull #1777
Std rig; wing keel, M35B, Delta (45#)
Punta Gorda, FL
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/diva-di/
Don't know what you're missing
Enrique
Talisman
1998 36 MK2 Hull #1673
Tall Rig Wing Keel
M35BC engine
Old Saybrook, CT Summer
South Glastonbury, CT Winter
Wondering if you have heard from Catalina. I have the same issue with quadrant. The additional play has cracked the rudder post. Picture posted looks exactly like mine.
Bill and Patti Wilson
Lighthouse Point Fl.
1997 Catalina Mk2
Furling main
Hull 1623
Thanks for the pics. surprised there hasn't been a bulletin on this. You are at least the third boat with this issue. Still thinking on the best fix for mine.
Bill and Patti Wilson
Lighthouse Point Fl.
1997 Catalina Mk2
Furling main
Hull 1623
I visited Catalina and spoke to Gerry Douglas the designer of our boats. He told me to glue the broken part back up to the cockpit floor and attach a few screws. He gave me the special industrial glue and lent me the applicator tool.
You didn't provide a picture from below but from what I can see it looks like a starboard plate was put in the cockpit plate area to hold the screws. I'll do the same.
Enrique
Talisman
1998 36 MK2 Hull #1673
Tall Rig Wing Keel
M35BC engine
Old Saybrook, CT Summer
South Glastonbury, CT Winter
Is this something where we should be adding starboard or SS plates above and below, bolted together, to preclude this failure?
Joe & Patti Worth
"Tehani"
1999 C36 MKII #1810
Atlantic Highlands, NJ
It can not hurt actually. I did something different about 5 years ago. I added a upper bearing to that area so my lower tube would not get washed out as many do. It gives the rudder post 2 contact points and helps relive the pressure off the lower tube.
Randy Sherwood
Mutualfun 1990 # 1057
T/R W/K M35a
Home. Charlotte, Mi.
Boat. St Augustine,Fl.
Would someone please explain to me just how the rudder shaft is supported and what breaks? I'm having a bit of difficulty seeing the whole picture from the pics. My boat is a year 2000. It is out of the water 6 months for the winter.
Thanks,
Wally
Wally
"Onanne"
2000 MKII, deep keel, tall rig
Lake Champlain
Wally I will see if this helps you. In your cockpit you should have a stainless round plate just behind your wheel on the cockpit floor. That is the access plate for your rudder post. You unscrew that plate and you will see the top of your rudder post plus a collar around the post and a bolt holding that collar on. What that collar sets on is what has been breaking on other boats. Th area under that collar is about 1/2" thick. That is what holds the rudder up and from dropping down till the quadrant hits your rudder post. How these are breaking has got me wondering. I beefed mine up years ago just for extra support to the rudder system. I hope this helps a bit.
Randy Sherwood
Mutualfun 1990 # 1057
T/R W/K M35a
Home. Charlotte, Mi.
Boat. St Augustine,Fl.
Randy what do you mean by an upper bearing? Is it like the fix demonstrated in the pictures above?
Enrique
Talisman
1998 36 MK2 Hull #1673
Tall Rig Wing Keel
M35BC engine
Old Saybrook, CT Summer
South Glastonbury, CT Winter
Hi Randy,
I now understand how it's supported, but what I can't under distand is why this collar is riding on a plate that's adhered UNDER the support "platform". Do I have this right? If so, why on earth would an engineer place the weight of the rudder on something that is trying to peel away???
How did you beef up yours? Did this involve dropping the rudder?
Thanks Randy!
Wally
Wally
"Onanne"
2000 MKII, deep keel, tall rig
Lake Champlain
I just spent the weekend fixing mine. Loosened steering cables, Moved the post up about 1/2 inch then shimmed the quadrant so the rudder would not drop down again . Used 610 to reattach delaminated piece. Reinforced by making a starboard collar that fits over the post from the top. Used 610 to attach it to the fiberglass.
Had to redrill the bolt hole in the fiberglass collar that holds the post.
Bill and Patti Wilson
Lighthouse Point Fl.
1997 Catalina Mk2
Furling main
Hull 1623
Bill
I haven't been able to get to t yet.
Glad someone competent is leading the way. Two quick questions:
1. Why did you loosen the quadrant cables?
2. Why did you need to redril holes on the post? Did you remove it to drill?
Enrique
Enrique
Talisman
1998 36 MK2 Hull #1673
Tall Rig Wing Keel
M35BC engine
Old Saybrook, CT Summer
South Glastonbury, CT Winter
[QUOTE=sea dragon;20482]I just spent the weekend fixing mine. Loosened steering cables, Moved the post up about 1/2 inch then shimmed the quadrant so the rudder would not drop down again . Used 610 to reattach delaminated piece. Reinforced by making a starboard collar that fits over the post from the top. Used 610 to attach it to the fiberglass.
Had to redrill the bolt hole in the fiberglass collar that holds the post.[/QUOTE]
Thanks,
So basically, you transferred the load to the new plate on top of the "floor"? I guess the original plate you re-glued with 6-10 is now acting as a side-to-side alignment plate?
Thanks again.
Wally
Wally
"Onanne"
2000 MKII, deep keel, tall rig
Lake Champlain
lossened the chain to position everything properly. centered the post around the starboard plate which made the fibeberglass collar that sits on the starboard plate higher than the original holes in the piece. redrilled the collar to get the bolt through collar then the original holes in the rudder post.
the post does not have side to side action now. I have not put any real load on the fix yet. As soon as the weather breaks here, we will be sailing.
Bill and Patti Wilson
Lighthouse Point Fl.
1997 Catalina Mk2
Furling main
Hull 1623
Went to the boat today and understand what you did.
Thanks
Enrique
Talisman
1998 36 MK2 Hull #1673
Tall Rig Wing Keel
M35BC engine
Old Saybrook, CT Summer
South Glastonbury, CT Winter
Hello,
I have the same problem with my Catalina 36 mk1 and will start opening hatches and stuff at the back to see what is wrong. Has anyone got some pictures of what the repair looks like? Thing is that the description a few people gave on this forum is hard to understand when you are Dutch like myself. Also an iPhone which corrects everything I type into proper dutch here does not help here to exchange. A few photos would help a great deal.
kind regards,
Floris
Note that while the SS bolt through the fiberglass collar and through the SS rudder post holds the rudder at the correct height, the steering quadrant will prevent the rudder from dropping down more than about 2 inches. You don't want to be steering too much with the rudder dropped down, however, as the quadrant is now in contact with brass compression fitting at the top of the thru-hull (with packing inside just like the prop shaft gland) that keeps the water out and it is then at the wrong angle for the steering cables. They'd likely be cutting into the cosmetic fiberglass box on the underside of the cockpit sole. This drop would also put more pressure on the steering cables and could screw up your entire steering system if not fixed ASAP.
Kevin Lenard
"Firefly"
'91 C-36 Mk. "1.5" Tall Rig, Fin Keel, Hull #1120, Universal M-35 original (not "A" or "B")
CBYC, Scarborough, Lake Ontario, Canada