Rich,

I have just replaced my 4d's. See the discussion under the heading "Batteries" in this column. Just scroll down. You will get the full monte on golf carts vs 4d's. My boat already had the seperate starting battery set up you are wanting to go to. I think it's simple to do though, and there is someone on one of these threads that just did it. Basically you hook your 4d's in parrell, and run the cable to switch one or two on the battery selector, your preference, and then the starting battery to the other selection. Others have said it better, just search and read these threads. Also the Cat 34 site has good info.

Bill

Rich, note I didn't say "start" bank. From recent discussions on this and other websites, including Rod Collins who has written a lot of material on alternators here on this website (uses "Maine Sail" as his moniker), we have learned that starting our engines on the house bank does not harm the house banks and leaves the backup bank for when you need it. So, instead of switching to the emergency reserve backup bank, you leave it there for when or if your house bank gives up the ghost. Prudent skippers use the largest house bank they can and save the reserve bank for if they do need it.

Most boats come with the alternator output going to the 1-2-B switch. Most boat electrical experts now recommend that the output go to the house bank, which then requires a way to charge the reserve bank, which is done with combiners, ACRs, echo chargers, duo chargers or a simple switch.

I recommend keeping the simple 1-2-B switch. WM has been "peddling" the Dual Circuit switch, which I believe is a wrong piece of gear. Many have used them successfully, although I just plain disagree.

To read more, please feel free to peruse our C34 website. You can start here for a long discussion of the 1-2-B switch and the dual circuit nonsense: [url]http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4623.0.html[/url] Please read both pages.

A good basic primer on C34 and C36 electrical systems is here: [url]http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Catalina_34_Electrical_System_Up...

Good luck, you have a very good idea and you will be able to enjoy your boat a lot more with a good electrical system with the large house bank you will get from this simple addition. You''ll learn a lot from simply planning it out and doing it, too.

Stu, by golly, you're right. It is a misnomer. I've always called my #1 a Start Battery, but the fact is that it is only there as an emergency back-up. Whether starting or not, I leave my battery selector on Batt #2 all the time, which in my boat selects the paralleled 4Ds.

When plugged in to shore power, the charger charges both batteries. But underway, the alternator charges only the battery bank selected. That's fine with me because I am a strong advocate of letting the batteries rest ("sleep"?) if they've not been under load.

Darn, now I am going to have to re-label the switch.

Larry, latest info on battery conditioning is that getting them fully charged and keeping them "at rest" is the right thing to do. Continual float charging is bad for the cells. Think of it this way: so many of our brethren pull their boats out during the winter, charge up their batteries and leave them for the winter. Things are OK in spring time.

Plugging in all the time, unless ya wanna keep your fridge going (nuts as far as I'm concerned, but I'm tired of that argument) is crazy if you wanna keep your batteries alive for a loooong time.

Caprice has a bank of four golf cart batteries for "House" use and one separate starting battery. The starting battery is on number 1 and house batteries are on number 2 on the 1-2-both-off switch. Caprice is at the dock behind my house. If the boat has not gone out for a week I plug in the shore power overnight to charge up the batteries.

When I start up the boat to go out I use the starting battery and run it for as long as it takes me to pass through the cannel system here in Punta Gorda Isles which is about fifteen minutes then I switch to the house batteries, put up the sails and shut off the engine. When I take the sails down I start the engine on the house batteries and go back to my dock in this mode.

My batteries are a few months over seven years old. I check them under load with a battery tester and they are still doing fine. However, I think I am going to change them anyway just because I don't think batteries last longer than seven years.

Mike, all you're really doing is potentially overcharging your start bank that way. If you use your shore power to charge before you leave, you may never find out if you have a battery problem, and keeping the 1-2-B on your "emergency reserve backup" (not start) bank is potentially overcharging it, assuming your alternator output is going to the C post of your switch. I would run your boat on your house bank, and only charge when you get home to assure your house bank is fully charged after it's been drained. You could be leaving your house bank undercharged for all the time they're sitting between sails. I think ya got it backwards.

and if your batteries are OK after seven years, why change them if they don't need it? Save some $$, big time, and keep them for as long as they perform. Just because they've lasted this long also doesn't mean you shouldn't reexamine your method of charging.

You might want to consider rewiring your alternator output from the switch to your house bank, like described here. If you're only daysailing, it may not be worth the effort, since you charge from shorepower regularly. [url]http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4623.15.html[/url]

Your boat, your choice.

Mike:
After reading your post I had to think about our T-105s we have. They are on their 7 year as well. I got mine set up so the Balmar alternator goes to the house bank which is on #2 and my start is on #1. I then have an echo charger off the house bank and that charges the start battery. The switch is always set to # 2. Have done it this way now going on the 8th year that we have owned our 36.

One of the things I do twice a summer is to equalize the house bank batteries. I bet that is something that a lot of people never do, it is and important part of battery maintenance. I am just curious to hear how many never do it.

No, I have never done it. Hull 2109 is on her original paralleled 4D batteries, new in spring of 2002, and I think they ought to serve for at least another season. I'll admit (sheepishly, though) that I am not sure exactly what equalizing is*, what the benefits of doing it are, or how it's done.

* Presumably, inferring from the word, it is making sure both batteries are equally charged.

Larry - You're close. Equalizing is meant to get all the cells equalized. It's better explained here: [url]http://www.amplepower.com/primer/equal/index.html[/url]

Craig

Randy
I never heard of "Equalize". What is it and how do you check for it?

Mike, please read Crag's link above and download and read the Ample Power Primer at [url]www.amplepower.com[/url], click on Technical Documents at the top. Read the others, too, lotsa good stuff about batteries you NEED to know.

On the equalization process what I will do is give you a web site that explains quite a lot on battery maintenance. There are a lot of good sites out there but I found this one helpful for myself.

I will not go into detail a lot as there is a lot to read on the site but what you need to do is to check you battery charger and see if it has a equalize program with in it. It is a manual process that you do as the equalization process needs to be monitored when it is taking place.

My old battery charger that I had on the boat was a Statpower , truecharge 40. It was a 3 step smart charger and is one of the better ways to charge a battery. As I mean by using a smart charger, where it will step down as it gets close to being topped off.

Some of the high output alternators will have a equalize program with in it as well, such as the Ample power one. I have a balmar with a smart regulator which has the same ability to equalize the batteries but I would rather do it at the dock without running the motor to use the alternator. The equalize process usually takes a couple of hours to do.

In short what it does is cleans the plates off in the battery as they will get build up on them from being cycled as we all use them. Thus getting the cells back in line with each other, I can go into great detail but no need as this web site will explain it in great detail.

One thing though is that only flooded cells get equalized, Sealed, Gell or AGM, can result in damaged batteries or other damage,

Just grab a beer and set down to do some reading here:

[url]http://www.semarine.com/store/home.php?cat=71[/url]

Randy

Randy, Stu, and Craig
Thanks for the links. I've posted them in the Owner's Encyclopedia, too.