May 2003 Technical Notes

by Bob McCullough

2199 Old Skippack Road - Woxall, PA 18979 - (215) 234-4491

E-mail: rmccullough@comcast.net

And

Tom Senator

12 Vreeland Place – Allendale, NJ 07401 – (201) 818-0544

E-mail: tsenator@cisco.com

 

Starting with this issue Tom Senator will be writing part of this column mostly concerning the Mark II 36s whereas I will be dealing with the earlier boats. We will collaborate on both when needed.

 

We would like to have all those owners who have experienced a failing or failed stemhead fitting to contact Dennis Stovall at dstovall@gci.net. Give Dennis the information on how the fitting failed. Please do this as soon as possible. We want to do everything possible to help you.

 

Note to Wolfgang Postler:

I have answered all your posts but they have all been non-deliverable for some reason. Please check your e-mail address and send it to me to check against the one I have.

 

84 C36 Tach

 

Hi Bob:

     The tech notes I got from you a few months ago have been invaluable - thanks. I just made the wiring harness upgrade to my C36 #206 yesterday. As predicted, it took me about 4-5 hours to complete but I sure do feel better. My plugs were corroded and there was evidence of overheating. I also replaced the wire from the alternator to the starter with a #6 wire with lugs - thanks for the pointer. I can’t wait to see the benefits. The glow plug solenoid upgrade is next.

My question. My tach does not seem to resemble anything mentioned in the tech. notes. It does not have any visible manufacturer markings, but it is a tach only (no hour meter). It goes from 0-4000 RPM and on the back it has a switch labeled A, B & C - this is a recessed switch designed to be changed by a slot-type screwdriver. It also has a much smaller recessed slot-screw that is labeled CAL. It has a one-wire feed (blue) from the back of the alternator and a power and ground along with a light. I can touch about 3900 RPM on this thing which makes me think it is not reading correctly. My panel has the following: the tach, temp, voltmeter (replaced ammeter), separate hour meter, blower toggle switch, glow plug toggle switch, an ignition key-switch and the engine stop pull cable. Any suggestions on how to calibrate this type of tach??

Are you still happy with your anchor roller you installed on your boat?? I'm about to do the same and install a Lofrans windlass. Any suggestions? Thanks for all your help.

Russ Williams, FOUR SAIL, Cruiser@WT.net

 

Russ:

     You have a Teleflex Tach. The A, B, and C positions are used to calibrate the tach according to the number of poles in the alternator and the pulley ratios. The CAL screw is for the final setting. You determine the pulley ratio by actually turning the engine over by hand and counting the turns each pulley makes. Or do it the easy way, divide the crankshaft pulley diameter by the alternator pulley diameter.

     Start by putting a small strip of tape on the larger pulley (the engine crankshaft) and one on the alternator pulley. Release the engine compression lever so you can turn the engine over by hand. As you make 1 turn on the engine count the turns on the alternator pulley. This is the pulley ratio.

     Now, depending on the number of poles in the alternator you select one of the settings, A, B, or C. Once this is done the CAL screw is used for the final setting. Using a fluorescent droplight, use Chusk Husick's method of checking the engine RPMs. It's in the tech notes. Adjust the tach with the CAL screw. That's it. If you give me the pulley ratio I can give you the switch setting. When you use the CAL screw be very careful. Small increments only or you can damage the internal mechanism. Engine speed should be 1/2 to 2/3 of maximum RPM.

     It helps if you can borrow a remote tach and have someone help you. Your tach is probably set on the correct setting and only needs to be calibrated with the CAL screw. Get back to me on this…Bob

* * * * *

Catalina Question

 

Hi Bob,

     Just sent my check to the Salzbergs to join the association and sent you a check for the complete set of Tech Notes. Both go out in today's mail so you should receive it soon.

     I recently had hull number 1625 surveyed and am currently signing all of the paperwork to buy her. Two things were noted on the survey that I may need help with.

     First, the bilge pump pops it's circuit breaker when in the automatic mode. What trouble shooting steps should I take to determine what is causing this to happen? How do I identify if it is bad wiring, a bad circuit breaker or a bad bilge pump?

     Second, the surveyor put a meter on the outlets of the inverter (powered from the battery) and said it was not grounded. We then looked at the inverter (I was present for the survey) and the ground wire was connected. The surveyor then used a multi-meter to test output from each of the receptacles in the outlet. If he put one probe in the positive receptacle and one in the negative receptacle he got 120v. If he put one probe in the positive receptacle and one in the ground receptacle, he got about 66v. If he put one in the negative receptacle and one in the ground receptacle, he got about 65v. I believe the surveyor said that there should be 120v when he connected two of the receptacles (don't remember which two) and nothing when he connected the other two. The outlets connected to shore power work as advertised. Any ideas here?  This one may be confusing; any help would be appreciated.

     I have read most of the past notes on the web and look forward to getting aboard my boat this Friday and comparing things to the tech notes. Thanks, you really do provide a valuable service.

Scott Shaw, SShaw@ida.org

 

Scott:

     Your copy of the Tech Notes was mailed a couple of days ago.

     I take it that the panel has provision for the bilge pump. If not, then it should be on a separate little panel of its own and fused instead of a breaker. If it only pops on auto mode then the float switch could be bad but I doubt that. Is it OK on manual mode when you hold the switch on or does it pop then? I would trace the wires out and see if there is a break or worn wires that are rubbing together. Then I would temporarily connect to a larger rated breaker and see if that one pops. If it does, then your pump is most likely at fault. I mean only about 5 amps larger.

     There should be only 120 VAC when you connect to the positive and negative slots. There should be no voltage between the ground and neutral or between negative and ground. Your inverter is either wired incorrectly or it is defective. Get an electronics man to look at it and see what the trouble is…Bob

 

Thanks Bob. I look forward to getting the tech notes. Hopefully the postman will not be deterred by the snow!

I plan to go to the boat this weekend and do some general cleaning and look at the bilge pump problem in more detail Will let you know. The inverter can wait awhile, it won't be used for a few months now. I appreciate the help!

Scott

* * * * *

Fuel Gauge

 

Bob:

     To start with when I bought our boat approximately 3 years ago the fuel gauge was inoperable. Being in the automotive repair business all my life I knew just how to check it out. Started by checking the gauge. It had power but when you ground the negative side of the gauge it would not move so I replaced the gauge. Still inoperable but the needle would move when grounding the negative side so I went to the sender unit and replaced it with an aftermarket/universal sender which I had to adjust to fit the tank. Seemed ok, filled tank went to full, great now I knew how much fuel I had, I thought. I was sure happy about the great fuel consumption I was getting until Sunday when it ran out & I had to sail into our slip.

     Now comes the problem, I had to carry 5 gallons of fuel to the boat, since my marina does not have diesel. Now I can't get the system to bleed out. I know the electric fuel pump is working ok because it just goes tick, tick, tick instead of tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick real fast. Any suggestions?

Cecil Griggs, cecil@importcarcenter.com, Ultimate Cruz, Hull# 468

 

Cecil:

You can't use any other sender unit. I am sending you the fuel sender test procedure. Follow it and you will find out if you are OK. I'm not sure if the test procedure will work on any other sender than the proper one. If you have to order a new sender get the one made for the Catalina. It is a Stewart Warner sender and has a specific ohms rating. You will have to get a new sender unless you have the old one to reinstall.

The fuel pump will only go fast on first turning the key. Once it loads up then it goes very slowly until you start the engine. Try bleeding the system at the fuel filter on the engine. If you get fuel there go to the injector pump and bleed that. Once you have fuel at the pump then go to the fuel pipes at the injectors and bleed them too. You should be OK if you get fuel at all those places…Bob

* * * * *

Fuel Leak

 

Dear Bob:

     I have hull 884, a 1988 standard rig. I replaced the fuel tank last fall. Catalina was very helpful and priced it right. The old one had several pinhole leaks in the bottom.

     Now, however, when I fill the tank I get fuel in the bilge for several days. Not a lot, but enough so the water has a slight sheen and the diesel odor. I don't think it is coming from the filler pipe or the vent hose, although that is about all I know to check. The tank is not leaking. The filling of the tank has occurred without starting the engine, so I don't think any fuel lines to or from the motor are the cause. Have you heard of this before?

     Some other points, when I bought the boat in 98, I built my own perch seats from polymer plastic purchased from Tap Plastics, they are bolted and sit on the lower stern pulpit rail, swing around behind the split backstays and supported by 2 upright pieces of rail, mounted stereo speakers underneath. I did not want to have to install and remove them every time I used the boat, so I made them permanent, and with Sunbrella blue snap on cushions to match the dodger and bimini. At Sail Expo, I ordered rail cushions cut to finish the installation.

     I did something similar on the C 30 I had, I bought from the factory C 270 stern pulpits and installed them, looked great, but got complex, due to lifeline lengths, different levels of the mounts etc, and expensive, $800 in 1997.

     Back to the 36, I also lowered the stove assembly, and cut a board to fit the stove top, covered it with matching laminate, and teak fiddle, so I have more counter top space. Cut white laminate to fit the bulkhead above the fridge, that really brightened up the galley. Installed a new engine panel on the cockpit backrest, made a breather hose mount for the engine air filter to keep the fumes burning instead of into the bilge, installed a 15 X 10 fixed 3 blade for the Sacramento delta motoring needs.

     The Delta requires a bimini, so I had a huge one made that extends from the dodger to about 2 feet behind the backstays, I also had a UV screen window placed in it, so I could see the mainsail from a standing position at the helm, and a cover for that window to keep out the sun at the dock. Sitting on the stern perch seats, you are still shaded from the overhead sun, it is hot out here. More stuff done, but I'll close now. One day I'll send digital photos to you for Mainsheet. David Atherton ctlna@msn.com

 

David:

     No, this is a new one on me. The diesel has to be coming from somewhere. Most likely it does come from the vent hose as that is a long run. It could have a pinhole in it somewhere along the line. Do this. Get some hose that fits the vent pipe on the tank and run it up through the cabin to the outside the next time you fill the tank. Have the hose long enough to stick overside while filling the tank. See if you still get diesel in the bilge when you fill. If not, there is your answer. You will have to replace the vent hose all the way or vent it at the side of the hull.

     There is another way to check the vent hose. Take it off the tank and off the fitting at the stern. Plug it on one end and inject some air. If it won't hold pressure there is your leak.

     Do send me pictures and a write-up on your mods, please. They sound good enough for the Tech Notes…Bob

 

Thanks Bob, I'll try the extra hose idea first.

* * * * *

Fuel Tank Pressure

 

Hi Bob:

     I was wondering if you could help me out. I've got a 1987 - Catalina 36 which we sail regularly on SF Bay. Last weekend I was trying to fill my fuel tank but couldn't get more than a few gallons in before the tank seemed to pressurize and the fuel started flowing out of the overflow line in the transom. I checked for some type of pressure relief valve on the tank but none appeared obvious. I had been out the previous day in very windy (30-35kts) and wavy conditions. My thinking is that I shook up the fuel enough to create some pressure. Now I can't seem to get rid of it. Any thoughts/ideas you might have would be great. Thanks a million.

Doug Petty PettyD@bsci.com, Mein Boat

     PS-the engine runs fine and there is still ~1/4 tank of fuel.

 

Doug:

     There is no pressure relief valve on the tank or anywhere else. Are you sure that you needed fuel. What I'm asking is your tank sender working? You have the same year as Felicity II and the M-25 21HP engine. That's pretty economical on fuel like 1/2 gal per hour at cruising throttle.

     Diesel usually does not evaporate like gas and doesn't produce vapor pressure or lock. I really can't tell you much but you might try removing the return line from the engine to the tank and see if the relieves any pressure. The same thing can be done with the overflow hose at the tank.

     Since the overflow did work the hose must be clear so that isn't the problem. I can't suggest anything else except that your tank had more fuel in it than you thought. I can send you the procedure to check the tank sender as an attachment to this note…Bob

 

Bob:

Thanks for the quick response I thought about the sender and as you say the engine is very fuel efficient, however, I've been watching the gauge and also "sounded" the tank to get a rough sense of how full it was. I haven't put any fuel in since late last year as we don't motor much (in and/out of slip). We get plenty of wind here in San Francisco!! Do you know if is there an anti-siphon valve on the fill line that would prevent venting during filling? Thanks for the attachment. I'll let you know how it turns out! Doug

 

Doug:

Nope, ain’t no anti-siphon valve in the line…Bob

 

* * * * *

 

M35 Universal Cam Sleeve Missing

 

Tom:

How do I know if the camshaft and/or pump have been damaged? What is the failure mode? I am concerned that I will experience premature camshaft or pump failure because this engine did not have the Cam Sleeve on. Travis C36MKII #1811

Travis:

Hi, first lets make the assumption that you've removed the water pump and can examine the "tangs" on the camshaft from the hole where the water pump was. Its not too hard and the instructions are here. http://www.catalina36.org/Article_servicebull235.htm. Its fairly easy, only a few bolts. Your boat is only 11 after mine (I have hull # 1800) so it’s a pretty good chance that the sleeve is missing.

You would know very quickly if the tangs broke because it would then fail to turn your water pump and you engine would overheat quickly. But just look in and you should see 2 tangs sticking out of the camshaft. If they are both there and you don't see any cracks at the base of the tangs, then you should be OK and you should be able to "carefully" press the reinforcing sleeve in place and all should be well. I am also assuming that you have already contacted Westerbeke or the distributor about the missing sleeve and have one to put on.  If not contact them directly and they will get one out to right away.  Be sure to include all the pertinent information, so that this is documented with them. The Westerbeke service bulletin # is #235.

I understand your concerns about premature camshaft or pump failure. As far as the pump is concerned, its my thought that, unless you severely overheated or its leaking then I think you are ok. As for the camshaft, that is tricky to say and I don't have a direct answer. You are most likely ok if you there are no chips, chunks or cracks visible on the tangs. And if you can get the sleeve on without any incident, then I think you'll be fine. (One person had a problem putting on the sleeve and broke one tang. I cannot be sure he bent the sleeve going on or their was a previous defect). Remember to be very careful pushing the sleeve on, the camshaft is extremely hardened metal (it has to be) and that can make it more brittle.

Really the only way to be 100% sure is to remove the camshaft, bring it to a machine shop and have it "dye tested" for any cracks. But if I was going that far, I guess I would just get a new camshaft put in. I wouldn't worry about it, BUT I would write a letter to Westerbeke documenting your concerns, so that if something does happen in the future, then you have something to point to.

Really, the Kubota engine block that Westerbeke uses is a great engine block with many, many years of service in marine and tractor engines. It should serve you long and well…Tom

 

* * * * *

 

Transmission Shift linkage adjustment (Cont’d)

 

Tom:

The recent postings made me realize I may need to adjust the transmission linkage - when shifting into forward there is a definite pause (almost 2-3 seconds) before engaging. When at the engine I can give the lever an extra downward push and it clicks immediately into forward.

If I push the shift lever hard and fast at the helm it also engages into forward faster than if I push the shift lever forward slowly (so maybe that is the short term fix). There is no similar problem shifting into reverse (and the fact the shift lever hits the instrument pod bracket tube going into forward shows the design flaw -- a longer pin to bring the shift lever outboard might fix this)

In any event, after looking at the linkage at the engine, I cannot figure out how to adjust the cable length. There is what appears to be an adjustment nut on the threaded rod, and I have adjusted that but I cannot figure out how to "shorten" the cable.

Thanks for the help. Bill Harvey, About Time #1457

 

Bill:

This has been addressed a few times before. First make sure it’s not something else with your transmission and is in fact the linkage cable out of spec (which it seems you have done). There is a Catalina tech note on just this adjustment (You can read the details here http://www.catalina36.org/Article_transmission.htm ) Its ENGINEERING BULLETIN No. 57 from Catalina on 5/7/02 which covers this. But more than a few have come to the conclusion that you have, no level of adjustment is going to get the desired throw within the specs and within the right geometry directly above the transmission throw arm.

What I think happens is that over time or other reasons, that the cable from the Edson pedestal to the transmission gets stretched and gets out of spec. (I think the design is on the edge anyway but that is another story) The quick and easy fix by a few of us is to just cut the end of the threaded cable by a little bit...maybe 3/8".

Adjusting the linkage correctly for the C36 can definitely be a challenge (especially in cases such as yours). If it is not done correctly or spot on it can be an annoyance at best (such as yours) or dangerous and damaging at worst. It is theoretically possible that a poorly adjusted linkage can damage your Hurth Transmission (Been there ...done that).

Make sure with the adjustment that you get the full 30 mm or 35 mm throw (from Center-line as measured from bottom or top hole on lever arm). As you have found, it is difficult to adjust correctly without shift lever hitting somewhere on the pedestal (Been there..... done that, too) Do not accept just "ok". If it doesn't meet the spec without hitting somewhere on the pedestal, then it is not right.

Now we arrive at where you are at. It would be MUCH BETTER if the design was such that the adjusting nut that hinges into the Hurth Transmission lever was threaded ALL THE WAY THROUGH. As you know it is "closed ended" and as such you cannot adjust the lever to where it belongs. There have been 2 things done by C36 owners that have accomplished the lever and throw to be where it needs to be.

1) Cut approx 3/8 of an inch off the end of the threads on the cable down where the lever is on the transmission. (If you are only a little off, this might get you much closer to where it should be)

2) If all else fails, do what I did (I do not recommend this for everyone, but I just drilled a hole lower on the Hurth lever arm to get the full throw required)

3) Possibly, but never tried by anyone I know of, is to replace your cable if it is truly stretched, with a new one that is a higher quality and meets tighter specs. Edson has info in their Catalog on the different types of Teleflex cable for this application.

But personally I think the EASIEST design change by Westerbeke/Edson would be to change that threaded adjusting nut with ball (on the Hurth Transmission) to threaded all the way through. All it would take is to drill thru and tap some threads. This would be the ultimate retrofit for this issue and allow much more range of adjustment. Stay tuned because I think I might try this modification this summer. I will take pictures and post what I find. Good luck…Tom

 

* * * * *

 

Reverse Polarity Light

 

Tom:

The green shore power light on the electrical panel goes on/off intermittently when the switch is on. This has been occurring for the last several months but I have not experienced any problems with the 16,500 BTU A/C, microwave or any other electrical appliance. Over the last two weeks the reverse polarity light has also been going on/off intermittently as well. Even with these lights going off/on, I have not experienced any performance issues with the A/C, etc. I am curious if this is a common problem with the indicator lights and if I should look for any possible problems (or change the lights). I have had two very experienced marine repair technicians tell me it is not a problem but I still wanted to check with you. I have previously used this service from the C36 web site with good results. Thanks

Gary Lorio 1996 C36 #1572 

 

Gary:

I do not know this to be that common of a problem on our boats. Though I have had the Red LED go out that was the indicator for my Propane Solenoid and had to replace it. I think I recall that it was acting a little flaky and intermittent before it went, so these might be ready to go.

The Green Shore power LED is wired directly across the Black (Hot) and White (Neutral) of your 115VAC leads on your Nav Table AC power switch. It’s pretty simple. If it doesn't light, then you either have a) a bad LED connection, b) a bad LED or c) No Power coming from source (which you believe to be ok).

The reverse polarity LED has one side attached to the White (Neutral) and the other lead attached to the Green (Ground) of your 115VAC power. For all practical purposes the reverse polarity light should never go on. If you see it becoming a bright Red then I might be a bit concerned. Under what conditions does the reverse polarity light come on? Does it come on bright? It’s normal to see a very dim red glow once in a while and mostly when there is a high 115VAC load coming into the boat. There should be no real current flow to your Green (Ground) on your boat back to the dock. This can be dangerous, if indeed you have a short or incorrectly wired boat.

Do you have the reverse polarity test button on your boat? I have it on mine. (I have 1999 C36MKII Hull #1800) You can test your reverse polarity light with it. The button is a momentary button just to make sure that the light works. Maybe I would try that test button when it looks like the reverse polarity starts going on/off intermittently. If it doesn't light, then you either have a bad LED connection or a bad LED (or in the extreme case a bad switch), but I'm make the assumption that this button works most of the time.

But listening to your symptoms, sounds like you have a few flaky LED's or LED connections. These LED's are pretty cheap and you might want to replace one to see if the problem goes away…Tom

(Note:  LEDs are polarity-sensitive so be sure that you have the leads correctly wired…Bob)

* * * * *

 

GPS INTERFERENCE ALERT

Ever have the GPS sporadically lose position or get wildly erratic readings without knowing why? Do you have your TV with TV antenna on? It might have something to do with it.

It has come to the attention of the U.S. Coast Guard and Federal Communications Commission that certain consumer electronics-grade active VHF/UHF marine television antennas are causing operational degradation in the performance of Global Positioning System (GPS) receivers. This interference may be realized as a display of inaccurate position information or a complete loss of GPS receiver acquisition and tracking ability.

If you are experiencing recurring outages or degradation of your GPS receiver operation you should perform an on-off test of your TV antenna. If turning off the power to the antenna results in improvement in the GPS receiver performance, the antenna may be the source of interference in the GPS band. In that case, you should contact the manufacturer of the antenna and identify the symptoms.     Some antennae models have been identified during investigations for GPS interference. This is not inclusive and all active TV antennas could be suspect. For details go to the link here

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/moa/docs/11-02.htm