February 2003 - Technical Notes

by Bob McCullough

2199 Old Skippack Road - Woxall, PA 18979 - (215) 234-4491

E-mail: rmccullough@comcast.net

Adding a 3rd battery

Bob:

     I read your article about adding a 3rd battery in the Mainsheet. I belong to the 30 Association but I read all the articles, especially for the 36's. That's my next boat. In the mean time I want to add a starting battery and put the 2 existing batteries in parallel. I think I know what to do but you mentioned that  you have a drawing on how to do it. I would appreciate it if you would send me a copy.  My address is:

Dennis Platt, 1814 Coleman Street, Brooklyn, NY 11234

     If it can be attached to an e-mail, OK. Otherwise send it to me at home. Thank you.

Dennis, DennisP558@aol.com

Dennis:

     OK, the schematic has gone in today's mail. If there is anything about it you are not clear about just e-mail me…Bob

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Alternator Upgrade

Bob:

     I am going to upgrade my alternator to high output with dual charging. I am also installing a separate starting battery to enable me to get the max use of my house batteries. Any references in the tech notes as to what I should consider?

     I am leaning toward the Balmar 75amp unit. It seems that the rpm curve for the 100amp makes the larger unit a bit impractical. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Joe 95 C36 #1459 Grand Cru sunata@msn.com

Joe:

     I'm not sure that there are any specific references in the tech notes. What you have to watch for is that the mounting bracket will fit the engine without any trouble. The 75 amp alternator is a good choice and you shouldn't experience any belt slippage. You may have to reprogram your tach after installing the new alternator. I have the necessary info to do that if it is needed.

     Sorry about the delay in answering. I have been down since the middle of January. I'm OK now. In the future, please use a new address for me, rmccullough@comcast.net, …Bob

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Refrigerator Drain & Foot Pump

Bob:

     How is this pump accessed (removed/serviced)?

     I'm buying this boat and the reefer has about 1 gallon of water in the bottom and operating the pump only seemed to pressurize the line or the pump (of course I stopped pumping when that occurred). There seems to be no visual access to the foot pump so I can't figure out where the line leads to (I assume it leads to a "T" that connects to the sink drain.

     My assumptions are that; (i) the pump is broken, (ii) the line is clogged (but where?), (iii) there's a diverter valve that needs to be opened that I can't find, or (iv) there's a plug in the bottom of the refer that I did not notice that needs to be pulled but how would you get to it, it's almost 4 feet down to the bottom of the refer? Any suggestions?

     The galley sink salt water intake is a "T" from the engine water intake. My surveyor says I should reconfigure the galley sink intake so that it draws water from a "T" at the head intake.

Any thoughts on this?

Cary Warren, cjwarren@attbi.com

Cary:

     First of all, forget changing the galley saltwater intake from where it is. Felicity II is an '87 model, hull 650, and the intake has been in that location since it was built. There is no problem with it. To run a hose all the way forward to the head is inviting troubles.

     I don't know where your reefer drain leads to. Mine comes out of the bottom of the box to a hose that ends in the bilge. The original idea was that the melt water would be pumped out with the bilge water. It is very easy to have something plug the drain hole. Yeah, it's way down in the bottom and you may have to stand on your head to get at it but it can be done. If it is plugged, try probing it with a thin wire.

I have a small pump that is connected to a spigot at the sink with the on/off switch on it. It drains into the sink.

Your foot pump has to have bolts/screws holding it to the bulkhead. You will most likely have to reach around bulkheads to remove it. There is no diverter valve. You can check to see if there is a Tee at the sink through-hull. The pump is probably OK but the line is most likely clogged. If it started to pressurize the line the pump is OK. It's got to be a clog. You will have to follow the hoses back till you find it. You are going to find that the most likely place for a clog is at the drain inside the box…Bob

Bob:

     I know you have nothing but time on your hands to read emails but you were kind enough to respond to my original questions so I decided not only to buy the boat (by the way it's hull 687 not 678) but to join the C-36 association and to send you an update with another question.

     After buying the boat (2 weeks ago) I disassembled the reefer foot pump and found it to be clogged just as you suspected. It was clogged with the remnants of a cork stopper that was obviously deliberately placed there but I can't understand why someone would want to close the drain line off. Mine is connected to a "T" above the galley sink thru-hull. To access the pump I had to drill out the dowels covering screws that hold a small rectangular teak cubby (that has no discernable purpose except to cover a cut out that provides access to the foot pump). The dowels threw me off track for a while until I realized that they had to be drilled out.

     I decided to take your advice and not to follow the surveyor's recommendation to relocate the salt-water galley sink intake line.

Cary

* * * * *

C-36 Transmission

Hi Bob:

     We have been sailing very happily our 1990 C-36 "Elusive" for 3 years now and our 1986 C-30 for three seasons before that. I avidly read your tech notes every issue and have your complete set of tech notes as well as the set for the 30's. I have never had any problems with the engineering plant on either boat with the exception that lately the transmission on our 36, a Hurth transmission on a universal M-25XP engine, fails to go into forward gear about half the time we shift to forward while the engine is warming up. It also slips out of forward when underway at idle speeds during the warm up time. However it never fails to go into reverse. After we have been out and sailing, the problem does not seem to repeat itself when we start the engine to return home.

     Before I have the transmission looked at by a mechanic, I think that I should change the transmission fluid to insure that it is fresh and that the problem is not caused by old/sticky fluid. The transmission has a small label on it that indicates that I should use Type A fluid, however when checking with the yard and with an auto parts store, I find that the old Ford type A fluid is no longer available. Do you have any recommendation as to what type of fluid I should use? Thanks very much.

Ed Hemstreet, EdHemstreet@cs.com.

Ed:

     You can use DEXRON II if you get the tranny drained and pretty much cleaned out. You can still fined Type A once in a while but don't bust your butt looking for it. Just drain the tranny well and refill. It takes 1,30 liters, a little under 2 quarts. The tranny fluid should be changed at least once a year.

     Next, check the travel of your lever. There are two holes in the shift lever on the tranny. The travel is 1 3/8ths for the outer hole, 1 3/16ths for the inner hole. The travel should be the same for neutral to reverse and neutral to forward. Check to see if you have more travel in reverse. The shift lever on the tranny must be vertical to the tranny. DO NOT UNSCREW THE NUT HOLDING THE TRANNY SHIFT LEVER IN ANY CASE. The torque for the clamp screw is 13 ft lbs.

     If adjustment of the shift lever does not correct your problem then I guess you will need a mechanic…Bob

Bob:

     Thanks so much for your reply. I did not know the fluid should be changed each year, will start to do so. I will start by draining and using Dexron II.

     I have been playing with the travel of the lever for three years until this year I realized that when I thought the tranny was in forward gear, sometimes the shaft was spinning in forward but with no force behind it the shaft could be stopped by hand. It was then that I disconnected the shift cable from the lever and moved the lever by hand. Sometimes the forward gear really engaged, sometimes it did not. I will first try replacing the fluid and if that does not work, then call a mechanic. Thanks again,

Ed, EdHemstreet@cs.com.

Ed:

     First, make sure that you run the engine (tranny) to warm it up. The fluid will drain easier then…Bob

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Diesel won't start

Dear Bob:

I contacted you couple times in the past on different subjects and your advice always provided a big help. Thanks once again.

By now I completed replacement of original alcohol stove with LPG stove (from Seaward). I think my installation is somewhat unique as I manage to fit two ten pound LPG bottles practically not loosing any usable room in aft lazarette. I also installed TV above the "game table" on starboard side on the shelf extension that I built using the same material as on all the interior. I have not heard of such TV placement also. Please, let me know if it's of any interest to you as I can make couple pictures and E-mail them to you.

At this point I have some problem that I hope you can help me with. I had to remove heat exchanger from my engine for cleaning as my engine was running slightly hot at speeds above 2200 RPM. I discovered piece of impeller in there that previous owner did not bother to find and remove (the impeller had no missing material as I bought the boat not that long ago, so it was there for a while). The same time I had to replace all water hoses, as they were old and cracking. After I put all back together and filled system with antifreeze I cannot start the engine. I realize that the cooling system has no effect on ability of engine to start. Starter turns the engine but it does not fire. I cannot see any obstruction for the air (filter is new & clean), unless there is some flap somewhere there that I do not know about, as I have no manual of any kind for this engine, only generic book on diesel maintenance.

As I'm loosening bleeding screw by the fuel filter & injectors I have fuel coming out, so fuel system looks OK also. I have read in your technical notes about decompression lever (if I recall the name correctly) that may be used to start engine in cases when battery is not strong enough to start engine in normal way. Where is it? I feel like engine turns too fast and there is no compression there. Maybe fighting those water hoses to put them in place I accidentally move that decompression lever and it is open so there is no compression in cylinders and if so sure it won't fire. If not this, I think it should be something else I accidentally changed/moved when I was working on cooling system, as this engine has never had any problem to start and last time several days ago was starting and running just fine (it would run hot on 2400 RPM and higher, but at 2200 RPM it would be 180°F). This is Universal M25, serial #411504. I will greatly appreciate your advice. With best regards,

Severin. SChayka@barnant.com

Severin:

     It sounds quite likely that you have moved the decompression lever to open if the engine won't start. OK, stand in front of the engine with the engine box removed. At the very back of the engine is a lever, about 3 inches in size, just about level with the valve cover. It should be spring-loaded so that it always returns to the closed position. This lever opens all the exhaust valves so there would be no compression at all. From your position at the front of the engine the lever should be moved to your left to open the valves. If it’s already to the left it would seem that the spring is gone. No problem, as moving it to the right will close the valves. Play with the lever a bit. See if it feels like it is opening the valves when you move it to the left and back to the right. Move it to the right and try to start the engine. If you have fuel at the injectors it should start. Besides the fuel pump you have the bleed the injectors too. You do that by loosening the injector pipe AT THE INJECTOR just a bit till you get fuel out of the pipe as the engine is turned over. Do it to all of the cylinders. If your engine doesn't start then, I don't know what it could be. There is no flap anywhere that would have to be moved.

     Please do send me your pictures of your modifications. I want them for publication…Bob

Bob:

     Thanks for quick reply. I'll try all you suggested.

     I'll try to send you those pictures next week, but if not I'll do it around the end of August after I'll be back from my trip. As always there is too much to handle as you are getting ready for the long sail and here in addition some unexpected problems like this one with my diesel. Thanks again.

Severin.

Reply from Severin. That was it!

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Catalina 36 Jibs

Hello Bob:

     Two quick questions:

     1. I have a 1996 36 Tall rig. What percent is the self-furling jib? (150% or smaller)

     2. The above boat finds itself on its "ear" in relatively moderate winds (15 knots or so). It has a 5'10" draft. Any possible reasons and/or cures?

Wade Blake wblake@sd68.bc.ca

Wade:

     First off I wouldn’t I know what genoa you have. You could have 150/155, a 135, or a 110. How far back does the genny come when you haul it in? Measure the luff perpendicular, that’s the LP,( a line at right angles to the luff through the clue), measure the "J" (the distance from the tack to the mast) and divide the J into the LP. This should give you the percent. The LP should be 15.76 feet for a 110 and 22.21 for a 155.

     As for the second thing ,15 knots is a strong wind. What do you mean by "standing on its ear"? What's your angle of heel? If it's only 15 degrees or so that is not too much. Even 20 degrees is OK but touchy. With a 5' 10" draft you have a good righting moment so I wouldn't be too concerned. The range of stability for the 36 is about 122 degrees…Bob

Hi Bob:

     Thanks for the formula for calculating the size of the jib.  I am sure it is at least a 140 and most likely a 150. In terms of being on its ear, the boat seems tender and heels early. Granted 15 knots is a respectable wind, but if it is heeled (I would have to check the angle) significantly in 15 knots, what would it look like in 25 or 30 knots? I've had the jib's luff shaped and had the jib "foamed". I've yet to see how far I can furl the jib with the new foam luff before it distorts (loses it shape and bags)

I am use to sailing on a C&C 33 and I race on a J120. We seldom reef the main in even very heavy winds. I only have the one self-furling jib for the Catalina. Should I be reefing the main early to help stop the heeling or should I be thinking about getting a 110? Wade.

Wade:

You should get an inclinometer installed on your boat. Then you would know the angle of heel. It always feels worse that it really is. Yeah, any thing over 16 knots really is considered reefing wind. I admit that I've kept the main and 155% genny up in 22 knots but that's pushing it a bit. Usually I reef when it gets to 18 knots and roll in the jib about 1/3 of the way.

What a lot of people don't realize is that the tall rig has a mast that's 2 feet taller and a boom that's 1 foot longer. That adds quite a bit of sail area. You can easily heel in fairly moderate winds with all that sail area. The genny is bigger than the main and also contributes to the heel angle. Your foam luff in the genny should allow you to reef very well. I'll bet that you can reef down almost two thirds of the way before it goes out of shape. Even then it will draw pretty well and allow you to point respectably. You are just going to have to experiment with various settings of the sails. Let me know how you fare.

I reversed the formula for you. Actually, you multiply the "J" by the percent you want. That is equal to the "L/P". If you draw a circle, halve it across with a line and divide the bottom half again you can figure any part of the sail. Put the L/P in the top half. Put the J in the bottom left quarter and the percent in the right quarter. The J multiplied by the percent = the L/P. The L/P divided by the J = percent. The L/P divided by the percent = J…Bob

Thanks Bob:

I appreciate your comments regarding the reefing of both the jib and the main. As I said before, I am use to hank-on sails and changing headsails in particular when the wind picks up. As a result, your experience and prediction as to what I should be able to shorten the furling jib are most helpful.

Wade

* * * * *

Electrical Question

Bob:

     Have been enjoying the Tech Notes you sent and we're fixing/upgrading Karma (1985 hull #364) like crazy. We've got a couple of electrical issues to deal with and would appreciate your input.

     The previous owner installed a couple of expensive gel batteries, but they have pretty much died. The 110v battery charger is a Newmar (probably original equipment) with no visible selector switch to lower the charging voltage for these, so I imagine that's to blame. However, is there a switch or other adjustment in the alternator circuitry for setting the engine starting voltage? I'm replacing the gel batteries with a pair of 6v golf carts for battery #1 and a group 27 for #2 and would like to ensure the charging voltages are correct.

     The other question is about the ignition switch. We have a 3 position key switch [off-on-start (momentary)] that has the on and start positions shorted, a push button switch for the glow plugs and a pull switch to start. I suspect that at some point either the key switch failed or someone lost the keys and a two position [off-on] was replaced. What was originally installed; 2 position key switch or 3? And, if 2-position is normal, what do you think about having a 3-position and actually using the start position instead of the separate pull switch?

     Just as info, the wiring harness upgrade you recommend hasn't been done on Karma yet. I'm planning to do it this fall. When I do, I plan on moving the hour-meter to the nav station and replacing it in the panel with an oil pressure gauge. Thanks, appreciate your input and keep up the good work!

Jim Cahill, jimnjnet@alamedanet.net

Jim:

     There is no external switch that will lower the charging voltage on the charger. There is also no switch on the alternator to change the voltage either. Voltage is fixed on the equipment you have. You could buy a new charger that would take care of this problem.

     Now, yes, the over-voltage probably did destroy the gel cells. They should be charged at no more than 12.8VDC: the rate for wet cells is 13.5VDC up to 15VDC. You can install a resistor that will lower the voltage to that point but it would have to be fairly large. You would need about a 12-ohm resistor but to handle the amperage it would need to be almost as large as the charger.

     Your golf cart batteries, in series, will be fine but why a group 27 for the other battery? Why not put in 4 golf cart batteries, both sets in series, as the house banks. Then put a group 24 or 27 as the dedicated starting battery. You would need a second selector switch for this but that's easy. I'll attach a diagram of the circuit. Then install a battery combiner as an isolator and charging unit. The voltage supplied by the alternator and the charging unit for this will be OK.

     Some of the earlier boats had a start switch as you describe. The other circuit was a pushbutton start switch and a pushbutton glow plug switch. You held in the glow plug switch and after about 1 minute you pushed the engine start while holding the glow plug button in. That too can be changed. Get yourself a new key switch, three position. Use the first position for the glow plugs, the 2nd position as the run and the 3rd as the momentary start position. I can also send you the pushbutton schematic if you would like.

     You don't have an oil pressure gauge? What do you have, a light?  You do know the kit contains a voltmeter to replace the ammeter. This is in addition to the voltmeter on the electrical panel which only tells you how the batteries are. This one goes in the cockpit panel. Will you have room for it? Send me your snail mail address. I have some stuff for you…Bob

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Engines on Catalina 36

Hello Captain:

     You may not be the right person to ask, but here goes . . .

     We are debating whether to buy an older or newer Catalina 36. I understand the design differences, but I'm more interested in the engine. Can you tell me if the older 36s have different horsepower engines, and if so, are they underpowered? Thanks for your time. Carolyn Kirdahy, ckirdahy@mos.org

Carolyn:

     It will depend on the model year of the vessel. Up to 1987 the standard engine was the M-25 21HP Universal. After that the engines could be the M-25XP or the M-25XPB, 23 and 26 HP respectively. Now the engines used are 30 and 35 HP, either Westerbeke or, rarely, a Yanmar. As far as underpowered goes, with the right prop you can get almost any speed out of the vessel up to almost hull speed.

     The design differences are almost all in the interior, the hull is the same except for the squared-off stern. The underwater lines are the same. If this helps you decide, OK…Bob

Thank you VERY much. Carolyn

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Catalina 36 Tech Notes

Dear Bob:

My wife and I sail our 1986 36' "Scott Free" out of Long Beach, Ca. Your tech notes have been a great help. It seems there is never a dull moment with maintenance -I love it!

Projects that have made the most significant improvements to our-on-the-water well being were:  1. The wiring harness upgrade.  2. Installing larger battery cables. 3. Having the fuel polished.

What a difference it makes to marital bliss when the engine actually starts and actually runs properly on a daily basis. I have the following questions.

1. Rudder - Is there any required maintenance? At times I have a squeal. The cap on the rudder for the emergency tiller is cracked and broken. When I remove the cap and bolt, will the rudder stay put? Any bearings in there?

2. Shaft - When I purchased the boat, the survey turned up a bent shaft. During haul-out I had it straightened. Last summer while at Catalina Island, I acquired a new vibration. After limping back to Long Beach, I discovered a nut on one of the motor mounts had vibrated loose. Now my mechanic says my shaft is bent again. This brass shaft seems to be very sensitive. The mechanic says most shafts are stainless steel. What was original equipment?

3. Prop: 2-blade. At 2500 rpm on flat seas, I average 5 1/2 knots. When I motor into the wind in heavy seas, I go nowhere. I read somewhere that you changed to a 3-blade prop. Can you give me any info on company, cost, where you purchased from, and were there any modifications? Thanks,

Al Scott wrpn@aol.com

Al:

     I'm glad the tech notes have been so helpful. That's the idea behind them.

     In answer to your questions, yes, the rudder will stay put. The cap is so you don't have the top of the rudder post exposed all the time. When you take the cap off you can attach an emergency tiller to steer by if the cables come off the quadrant. Get a new cap from Catalina. Contact David Graas at david@catalinayachts.com. He's the customer service rep.

     2. The original shafts are bronze, not brass. You can have your shaft re-straightened or buy a Monel shaft instead or just get a new shaft from Catalina. Very few shafts are SS. They cost too much money. If you have re-aligned the engine and locked the nuts you should be OK whatever way you go.

     3. I put a 15 X 11 X 1 RH prop on Felicity II. The 11-inch pitch was the most the M-25 could handle. Actually, it was originally a 13- inch pitch and I had it re-pitched. I got my prop from a dealer who is no longer in business. Just haunt a prop shop till you find one. You can even have a prop re-pitched a maximum of two inches so if you find one over or under that size you are OK to go. Better yet is to put a new folder or featherer on your boat. Have it set to a 10.3-inch pitch.

     DON'T go over or under that 15 inch diameter. You lose the mandated tip-to-hull clearance that is required…Bob

* * * * *

C36 Whisker Pole Recommendation

Bob:

     Kismet, #2056, sails on San Francisco Bay and needs a whisker pole for her 110% headsail.

     I've poured over the West Marine Catalog and have concluded that the Line Control pole I prefer (LC 12-22) might possibly be undersized for the 25-knot winds of The Bay. The next size larger (LC 12-24) may very well be overkill. Obviously for a middle-aged couple a lighter weight pole is preferable, but more than double the cost for carbon fiber is not economical.

     I wonder what others have purchased for this application. Any ideas, or advice? Regards,

Jim.JimBorgman@GRANT.k12.ca.us Information Technology Department, Grant Joint Union High School District

Jim:

     I've been trying to decide how to answer you on this. First, not too many owners have a 110% headsail. Most have either a 150/155 % or a 135% genoa. I can see why you want a telescoping whisker pole. Yes, carbon fiber is expensive but I guess the weight savings is impressive as far as handling goes. At $2,050 it isn't cheap and don't forget that doesn't include shipping.

     I would guess that the LC 12-22 is OK for your use in the bay. With 25-knot winds it just might be a bit too light but I really can't say. I've never used a whisker pole; instead I always used my spinnaker pole with the topping lift to hold it up. And of course, I have a 155% genoa so it wasn't too long a pole for my use.

The LC 13-22 is probably the better size with the 3” and 3.5" diameter poles. It is $700.00 more but if you are prepared to spend $2,050 for the smaller one then I guess the additional $700 is worth it. I guess I'd get the heavier pole to be safe…Bob

Bob:

Thanks very much for your speedy reply, observations, and advice. Here on San Francisco Bay the dealer supplies a 110 due to the consistently strong winds. 25 knots is typical for a summer day. It's often that I wish I owned a working jib, and in the summer the fully raised main seldom sees the light of day. Thanks, again, and keep up the important work you do for us. It's appreciated. Jim