Survey - Hull Moisture

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Survey - Hull Moisture

Greetings.  I wanted to first say a quick hello and many thanks for the informative forum.  I have enjoy lurking here and on the C34 forums for information to help in my quest to purchase a C34 or C36.
Yesterday I agreed to terms on a 1-owner 1987 C36 and moments later registered here.
The pre-purchase survey is this Wednesday.  Considering the boat is currently in the water, it is my understanding that an accurate hull moisture reading cannot be performed unless the boat is on the hard for a few days.  Provided the visual inspection is sound and no blisters are detected through the tapping, would there be a risk if the boat was put back in the water for the sea trial?
The maintenance history is well documented.  Starting with the Interlux 2000 (or 2001) barrier coat in 1988, then on the hard (~ 5 months) annually through 2000, then biennial through this season.  Sanded and painted with Interlux CSC each time.
Discussions with the yard manager who performed the inspections since 1988 and knows the boat well confirmed the history and also confirmed that the hull has not experienced any blisters, ever.
So, would it be a big mistake if the hull moisture test was skipped?  I don't want to let my impatience get the better of me down the road.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.
 Looking forward to meeting come of you on the Chesapeake soon.

Russell Green
S/V "GoodwiII"  #759
1987 C36 MKI TR/WK M25XP
Moored: Deale, MD

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Channel Islander
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Welcome to the website! And congratulations on your choice of a C36 - you won't be disappointed.

I urge you to join the Association as a paying Member, which will get you access to our Technical Library of maintenance, upgrade, and how-to articles, as well as many other benefits which you can read about on the About > Membership link off the main menu. If you join as a full Member for a three-year term you will also receive a copy of our Tech Notes CD, which contains more than 45 owner manuals for systems and equipment found on our boats as well as the Tech articles from Mainsheet Magazine going back to 1990.

As to your question: I purchased my 1984 C36 and skipped the hull moisture survey. Others will have more to say but i believe the problems with blistering were from a specific manufacture time period which began after your boat was built. If money were no object I would say do every survey you can, but you can probably rest assured with the inspection and history you've described, and use the boat buck for some other upgrade. No doubt your surveyor checked for it, but a more common problem I believe is the so-called "Catalina smile," where the hull-keel joint begins to separate. I did not have this problem on my '84 but many have. It's an easy fix if your boat does have it. Plenty of articles on this site about it.

Again, welcome!

Nick Tonkin
*Former* Website Administrator, C36/375IA
*Former* owner, C36 tr/fk #255, Santa Barbara, CA

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rkibler
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I recently purchased our girl after a satisfactory survey.  The surveyor would tap the deck(sounding) with a phenolic hammer.  When he heard a difference in the sound he would wave his moisture meter on it.  There is definitely a difference in sound between good deck, small dry void, and water intrusion.  My surveyor strongly encouraged me to go with him on the survey.  I learned more about my boat than any of the previous inspections I done myself.  After the survey he provided me a suggested repair(preventative maintenance list) for the next 3 years.  

Rob Kibler
s/v "Meander"
2003 C36 MKII #2124

knotdoneyet
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Sounding the hull and deck is very effective and all you need.  Make sure to tap around all the fittings in the deck.  It will be quite obvious if it is wet as you'll get a softer thud or repaired where you will get noticeably more solid return.

good luck!

 

2000 C36 MKII 1825

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Chachere
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Unlike the deck, there is no core in the hull on a Catalina 36, its solid, so I'm guessing that moisture testing is far less of an issue there. 
Here's an article I found on the subject: www.yachtsurvey.com/moisture_meters.htm
 

Matthew Chachère
s/v ¡Que Chévere!
(Formerly 1985 C36 MKI #466 tall rig fin keel M25)
2006 Catalina Morgan 440 #30.
Homeported in eastern Long Island, NY

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My C36 is a 1987.  The hull was coated with interlux barrier coat when it was commissioned in '87.  When I bought her in 2002 the surveyor kept going 'wow' as he ran the meter over the hull.  He said you don't see many boats with that dry laminate.  Blisters have not been a problem when we do bottom jobs.

what was the problem was small chain plate cover / deck fittings and plywood core that came right up to the fitting.  I had to rip the entire port side deck up and recore, relay the side deck and redo the entire non-skid to match.  Watch out for these failure prone areas - all six chain plate through deck areas, main plates are worst,  coach roof under the grab rail through deck fittings.

Brent and Janie Farler
"Salsa Caliente"
1987 Catalina 36 Hull #719
Lake Texoma, TX

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Brent, 
I'm not sure "these failure prone areas" is accurate.  I think that "lack of maintenance areas" would be a more accurate.  Rebedding the chainplates is considered by many to be a routine maintenance task, and if ignored, would lead to leaks, and eventually to rotten cores surrounding the chainplates.  Just my opinion.

Tom Sokoloski
C36/375IA Past Commodore
Noank, CT

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BrentF
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Fair enough Tom.  When purchasing a used C36 it is a key area to check. I would include the bulkhead areas directly beneath the primary chain plates since they may visually show a lack of maintenance.My starboard side deck did not show the same problem and is as sound as can be.  Plus if you find a boat with this issue it is fixable by a handy owner who has time, some basic skills (these can be learned) and not a lot of money ($110 for marine ply, $300 in glass and resin, $200 gelcoat).- I've attached the initial post repair picture (although I still have to go back and do some non-skid pattern mold touch up).

Catalina has changed the construction technique and now keeps the coring several inches away from the chain plates and uses a cover with more gripping surface. When I recored my side deck I cut the core back an inch from the chain plate and built up the area with a flexible epoxy/glass mix.

Having gone through and spent almost 2 years refitting my 27 year old C36 I will say these are great boats.  Similar sized  Hunters in my marina are suffering from multiple core issues especially in the cockpit floors which is not a maintenance issue.  In my opinion the Catalina's, especially the C30/34/C36 are one of the best choices if you are in the market for a older production fiberglass boat.

Brent and Janie Farler
"Salsa Caliente"
1987 Catalina 36 Hull #719
Lake Texoma, TX

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Thanks for the informative feedback.  I downloaded and reviewed the reference materials, tips and suggestions and applied this information to my survey yesterday.  It was very helpful.
The barrier coat was installed by South Shore (NJ?) on 6/3/87 and the surveyor said the hull was in great shape.  No issues observed.  There were a few moist areas on the port side chain plates and cabin interior handrail fasteners.  Wet, but no signs of delamination or early wood rot.  $7,300 worth of new rigging installed and servicing and inspecting each chain plate (12 hours labor) on 12/6/12.  I guess rebedding lasts less than 20 months or did the deck never dry out from that time?  So rebedding will be early on my list of projects and I will follow the procedures posted in www.pbase.com that uses butyl tape and countersinks the holes.  Will address all of the through deck fasteners. 
Some other issues including a leaking hot water and old style LPG tank and valves will need to be resolved.  Any tips on where to locate one stanchion?  A clean used one is preferred.
Overall, I was very please with the survey.  I should be a new boat owner on Friday.

Edit - located the stanchion on Catalina Direct for $78.

Russell Green
S/V "GoodwiII"  #759
1987 C36 MKI TR/WK M25XP
Moored: Deale, MD

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BrentF
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Congratulations!  You'll find a wealth of project and how to information in the owners association forums and files. I have gotten tons of experienced advice from the members here and the tech notes address most issues you can find on your boat.

I have CNG so can't help with the LPG questions.  Read up on the forums and articles on the deck and chain plate rebedding.  A lot of us have over drilled and filled or gouged out and filled our grab rail through deck holes.  You can stop further water infiltration by building this epoxy 'plug' so that the bolts/screws are not touching coring.  Same is true for chain plate.  Catalina Direct sells a new style chain plate cover that provides more grabbing surface - I personally installed and like them but not everyone agrees with me.

Enjoy your new boat, they are wonderful to sail!

Brent and Janie Farler
"Salsa Caliente"
1987 Catalina 36 Hull #719
Lake Texoma, TX

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